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Author Topic:   Who's the bigger offender: Conservatives or Liberals?
Mercury
Junior Member
Posts: 21
From: Socorro, NM, USA
Joined: 06-04-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 76 of 147 (886317)
05-15-2021 7:16 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Phat
05-14-2021 11:43 PM


Re: The New Boss?
Phat writes:

I am no expert and neither is Shapiro.

Is that lack of expertise what qualifies you to pass judgement on others?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Phat, posted 05-14-2021 11:43 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Phat, posted 05-15-2021 8:25 PM Mercury has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15361
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 77 of 147 (886318)
05-15-2021 8:25 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Mercury
05-15-2021 7:16 PM


Re: The New Boss?
If by that you mean that I should be forced to bow to scientific conclusions, the answer is no. Not for now. My critics have never admitted that I know anything apart from what they can scientifically prove. My argument is that they can neither prove nor disprove anything.

You yourself say that gender is an arbitrary set of social expectations.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Mercury, posted 05-15-2021 7:16 PM Mercury has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Mercury, posted 05-16-2021 9:18 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15361
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 78 of 147 (886320)
05-15-2021 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by dwise1
05-15-2021 12:19 AM


Re: The New Boss?
dwise1 writes:

Like most of us (myself included), you like to live in a comfortable binary world where everything is either this or that and there's no in-between. But there is a lot of grey inside any black-and-white world.

There must be many factors that go into forming a gender identity. Including hormone levels (just to keep it simplistic). And there are documented instances of genetic males or females having developed opposite-sex secondary traits.

There's more to it than you or your Ben Shapiro would think.

Your argument is persuasive enough for me to drop back and allow you to win. It is true that I see a black and white type of world. Whether or not I prove to be right, I am out of my league scientifically...I'll not look up Bens arguments simply to parrot them. My only point where I agree with his side is in the matter of being forced to recognize certain realities (or observations) due to science. I''llnot let science be my thought police.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by dwise1, posted 05-15-2021 12:19 AM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by dwise1, posted 05-16-2021 3:26 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15361
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 79 of 147 (886321)
05-15-2021 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by ringo
05-13-2021 10:55 AM


Re: The New Boss?
Phat writes:

Dont punish a particular race for the sins of their forefathers....


So if your father died without paying off the mortgage on the house, the bank should just write it off? That's not much of a capitalist attitude. Even I would say that if the children get the benefits of their fathers' deeds, they should pay the price.
This may work on an individual measurable level. It certainly could never be calculated nor applied to large people groups in any way that wouldnt start a war. We are divided enough culturally already.

And were a bill be presented to me that my father owed, I would feel under no legal nor moral obligation to pay it...for the record.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by ringo, posted 05-13-2021 10:55 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Phat, posted 05-15-2021 8:54 PM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 81 by ringo, posted 05-15-2021 9:15 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15361
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 80 of 147 (886323)
05-15-2021 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Phat
05-15-2021 8:39 PM


Reexamining the question
ringo writes:

So if your father died without paying off the mortgage on the house, the bank should just write it off? That's not much of a capitalist attitude. Even I would say that if the children get the benefits of their fathers' deeds, they should pay the price.

Yes, the house should be paid off by the children if they hoped to keep it. What should never happen is that the bank sends the children a letter saying that my father got an unfairly good deal and that in order to keep the house we pay more than the original terms. Thats what I meant to say.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Phat, posted 05-15-2021 8:39 PM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by ringo, posted 05-15-2021 9:19 PM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19061
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 81 of 147 (886325)
05-15-2021 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Phat
05-15-2021 8:39 PM


Re: The New Boss?
Phat writes:

It certainly could never be calculated nor applied to large people groups...


Why not?

Phat writes:

... in any way that wouldnt start a war.


You seem awfully eager to start a war.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Phat, posted 05-15-2021 8:39 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19061
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 82 of 147 (886326)
05-15-2021 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Phat
05-15-2021 8:54 PM


Re: Reexamining the question
Phat writes:

Yes, the house should be paid off by the children if they hoped to keep it. What should never happen is that the bank sends the children a letter saying that my father got an unfairly good deal and that in order to keep the house we pay more than the original terms.


What's the difference?

If the children inherited an unfair advantage, why shouldn't they pay for it? You're using Trump mathematics: "I got ahead somehow, so stop counting and let me keep my lead."


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Phat, posted 05-15-2021 8:54 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Phat, posted 05-16-2021 12:02 AM ringo has responded

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1214
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 83 of 147 (886328)
05-15-2021 10:41 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Percy
05-14-2021 9:35 AM


You said, "we're seeing an increasing hostility and intolerance towards conservative free speech." We're not. If you think we are then provide some examples.

There are those who've researched it, and say we are.

The Free Speech Alliance

quote:
In April 2018, the Media Research Center released a groundbreaking report exposing efforts to censor conservatives and silence conservative speech from major online platforms. Our report was so impactful that US Representatives on the House Judiciary Committee cited it four separate times during a July 17, 2018 congressional hearing.

In the past year or so, a well known Cincinnati Reds baseball announcer made a casual comment about a "fag", when he didn't think his mike was hot. He sure lost his job, the gays in the Cincinnati news media had a fit. No such fits used to happen to Robert Byrd, who used the N word publicly more than once.

These increased attacks on conservative free speech aren't just very recent (the 2020 election) but have been ramping up during the entire Trump administration. Not only to Trump himself, but to all conservatives.

What I think you can legitimately point to over the past few years is increasing hostility toward the views of Trump. For instance, there's a great deal of hostility right now toward his claims that the 2020 presidential election was stolen. That view is Trumpism, not conservatism.

There are a lot of conservatives who aren't real confident in the integrity of the 2020 election. "Stolen" is a harsh word, but these are changing times that our society is still coming to grips with. The Covid 19 hysteria played no small part in the confusion that was the voting process this time. The mail-in voting, the early voting, the questions about voter ID, etc. Conservative's lack of confidence in it is really very comparable to the liberal hysteria we heard 4 years ago when it was claimed that Russia interfered with Hillary's victory. Not as much free speech was silenced that time.

No democratic institutions were described in Message 24.

No they were not, what was described there was today's Democrat party's serious swerve to the left of liberalism, more towards socialism and communism. None of my dozen or so frantic opponents has responded to it.

That's going to cause me to limit my line by line response to all of this tonight. I'll just touch on a few of the more interesting ones.

Liberals achieved "the destruction of the second amendment"? Wow! How did I not hear about this?

They've been trying real hard in the past decade or so, and it's one of their few efforts that haven't gotten much traction. The more Democrats threaten to take them, statistics show that more and more guns are being sold.

How is it dangerous to set government policy regarding fossil fuels?

The government often doesn't do a good job of predicting unforeseen costs and complications that result from their meddling. In the 90's we had president Bill Clinton, you remember him. Bill had a little socialist dictator wannabe named Carol Browner as his EPA administrator. Her and the EPA decided it would be a swell idea to ramp up gas mileage standards, to the point where that time periods technology wouldn't allow large cars to be built anymore, thereby herding all the unwashed masses into tiny little econobox cars. They couldn't foresee the huge percentage of car buyers flocking to big SUV's in the next decade, and now into big 4 door pickups. There would probably be more fuel efficient vehicles on the road today if the government wouldn't have meddled. Sure, it's true that even those large vehicles get better mileage than large cars of the early 90's, the auto makers spent a lot of time and money to get engines to where they are today. That's largely why so many moderately equipped, moderately sized new vehicles today cost as much as a house.

You're ignoring the point. Rush Limbaugh's lies caused deaths, including possibly his own.

Everybody dies. A lot of us like to make our own decisions concerning how we choose to live.

This can be interpreted two ways, neither of which make sense. The actual cause of Sicknick's death, a surprise to everyone and so fairly big news, was very widely reported, so it makes no sense to say that most people did not hear about this.

Or maybe you mean that some people found out that Sicknick died of natural causes before the coroner released his report. This, too, makes no sense.

What makes sense is that a lot of people heard it trumpeted that he was killed by a Trump supporter with a fire extinguisher, and a lot fewer people heard that he died of natural causes. I watch ABC World News Tonight most evenings, no big attention getting correction was made concerning the original false report.

But if you want to claim so minor an inaccuracy is a lie, a big lie in fact, then how do you describe the lie that the 2020 presidential election was stolen? You're using a mote to distract people from a beam.

I believed the reports that conservative poll observers were sometimes denied entrance, and expelled, from polling places at times during the election. I live near, and sometimes work in, a medium sized, old U.S. city, where mobs sometimes roam, and I can just imagine which of the two political parties controlled the atmosphere at ALL big mob infested cities in the U.S.

Republicans have lost the popular vote in the last four presidential elections and seven of the last eight. That's why they're working so hard on voter suppression efforts.

They're working hard on voter ID, on getting the election process back to traditional methods, not all this new early voting, mail-in voting, ballot harvesting, illegals voting etc. But yes, Democrats have the numbers, they get them from the clusters of idle people in big cities. The red/blue maps showing where the red and blue voters are make that clear.

Gee, that's funny, because when I drive around rural America, which describes most of my state, I see satellite dishes on almost every house.

Gee that's even funnier, because when most people think of rural America, they're not thinking of New Hampshire hahahaha. They're thinking of Mississippi, Alabama, Kansas, Montana, Kentucky, South Dakota.

Mark, you are both amazing and amazingly consistent. I'm halfway through your post and have yet to find much of anything true. You're able to give voice to obvious outrage but unable to find anything true to support it.

You say below that you watch Ron Johnson and Tim Scott sometimes on Sunday morning programs. Do you find me to be a lot different than them, and others like them?

How is it untrue? I don't see religion's involvement or relevance in science, plumbing or knitting. Obviously you see it differently, so please explain.

There is ANGER in those who study science, this forum alone should make that clear to anybody, partly because they take science far beyond its boundaries, beyond what's testable and falsifiable, and religion gets in its way. They also have frustration at their inability to come up with naturalistic origins of life. Their beloved evolution continues to be a building with walls and a roof, but no foundation.

I'm just glad "plumbers" don't have this kind of anger, half of them would be laying around dead, beaten to death with monkey wrenches.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Percy, posted 05-14-2021 9:35 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by dwise1, posted 05-16-2021 4:14 PM marc9000 has responded
 Message 100 by Percy, posted 05-17-2021 4:13 PM marc9000 has responded
 Message 104 by dwise1, posted 05-18-2021 6:11 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15361
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 84 of 147 (886329)
05-16-2021 12:02 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by ringo
05-15-2021 9:19 PM


Re: Reexamining the question
If the children inherited an unfair advantage, why shouldn't they pay for it? You're using Trump mathematics: "I got ahead somehow, so stop counting and let me keep my lead."

The issue is that the bank is in no position to judge.

Why not?
For obvious reasons. Banks are not judges. They make contracts and collect interest. Period.

Nor is the government. Thats why issues such as this will never become law.

You seem awfully eager to start a war.
Im just warning those listening that one never touches another mans stack. The government is not nor ever will be Jesus. And He is the ONLY One who can touch my assets.

Edited by Phat, : added jabberwocky


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by ringo, posted 05-15-2021 9:19 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by AZPaul3, posted 05-16-2021 1:57 AM Phat has responded
 Message 88 by ringo, posted 05-16-2021 11:06 AM Phat has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5838
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 85 of 147 (886335)
05-16-2021 1:57 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Phat
05-16-2021 12:02 AM


Re: Reexamining the question
Im just warning those listening that one never touches another mans stack. The government is not nor ever will be Jesus. And He is the ONLY One who can touch my assets.

Naive, Phat. Understand the way the world really works.

In a fair fight the IRS would wipe the floor with your bloody ragmop of a Jesus because the IRS doesn't fight fair and can seize all your assets this afternoon and the banks have no option but to comply this afternoon. Lawyer or not, you're down hard. You're broke. Your bank accounts now sit at zero and all those outstanding checks just bounced. And as soon as your next paycheck gets deposited it too automatically disappears into the government's coffers never to be seen by you ever again.

You think your god is powerful? Don't screw with the IRS.

Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Phat, posted 05-16-2021 12:02 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Phat, posted 05-16-2021 4:42 AM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15361
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 86 of 147 (886340)
05-16-2021 4:42 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by AZPaul3
05-16-2021 1:57 AM


Re: Reexamining the question
I fixed your spelling of the word Naive.

AZ writes:

Naive, Phat. Understand the way the world really works.

In a fair fight the IRS would wipe the floor with your bloody ragmop of a Jesus because the IRS doesn't fight fair and can seize all your assets this afternoon and the banks have no option but to comply this afternoon.

The IRS Plays by the rules of law. Jesus recommended giving to Caesar that which is Caesars. Honest people have no need to fear the IRS.
You think your god is powerful? Don't screw with the IRS.
Why would I?

And why would our government make a law that unfairly seized assets? We have a strong legal system for a reason.

And our Supreme Court is conservative enough that morality will never be redefined based on emotional references from the distant past. Its a bit too conservative currently but thank God its not stacked with liberals...or they would be after our money (for the benefit of all, of course )


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by AZPaul3, posted 05-16-2021 1:57 AM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by dwise1, posted 05-16-2021 2:32 PM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 98 by dwise1, posted 05-17-2021 11:46 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Mercury
Junior Member
Posts: 21
From: Socorro, NM, USA
Joined: 06-04-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 87 of 147 (886342)
05-16-2021 9:18 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by Phat
05-15-2021 8:25 PM


Re: The New Boss?
When speaking of passing judgement on others, I was wondering exactly where that is in your "traditional Christian principles"?

Phat writes:

You yourself say that gender is an arbitrary set of social expectations.

Yes. What I want you to do is explain yourself and clarify your point. How do you define gender? Why do you keep equating it with sex when the former is sociological and the latter is biological? How exactly are trans people out of touch with reality? Why does it amuse you to see people distressed when they are attacked for their very identity?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Phat, posted 05-15-2021 8:25 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19061
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 88 of 147 (886348)
05-16-2021 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Phat
05-16-2021 12:02 AM


Re: Reexamining the question
Phat writes:

The issue is that the bank is in no position to judge.


That's not the issue at all.

The issue is whether or not society "should" pay. Even when nobody can force society to pay, "should" society do the right thing?

Phat writes:

Banks are not judges. They make contracts and collect interest. Period.


See above.

Phat writes:

Nor is the government. Thats why issues such as this will never become law.


If not, it's because society wants to weasel out of its debts.

The question is: Why do you advocate weaseling? Why are you so dead-set against doing the right thing?

Phat writes:

Im just warning those listening that one never touches another mans stack.


Jesus told you to give up your stack. I'm sure those listening appreciate you warning them against Jesus.

Phat writes:

The government is not nor ever will be Jesus.


I don't know why you keep bringing up the government.

Phat writes:

And He is the ONLY One who can touch my assets.


Clearly not. You have repeatedly refused to give them up for Him.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Phat, posted 05-16-2021 12:02 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Phat, posted 05-16-2021 3:26 PM ringo has responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 4606
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.5


(3)
Message 89 of 147 (886351)
05-16-2021 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Phat
05-16-2021 4:42 AM


Re: Reexamining the question
I fixed your spelling of the word Naive.

Where? How? Why don't we see it correctly spelled in either AZPaul3's Message 85 nor in your own Message 86? Oh yeah, you "corrected AZPaul3's spelling. Exactly how had he spelled it, BTW?

The correct spelling of "naïve" is "naïve". Without the requisite diaeresis diacritical mark it would sound like "knave", not like "naïve".

 
A feature of a number of languages, English included, is diphthongs, the combining of multiple adjacent vowels inside a single syllable (usually 2, but French also goes for 3; eg, "eau"). Some are logical (ie, combining the constituent vowels' own sounds; eg, Spanish "ai" and "au" and "eu", German "au") and some are just arbitrary (eg, German "ei" and "ie" and "eu", French "ou" and "eu, just about every single one in English -- let's face it, English written vowels are just plain weird and completely screwed up ... and the spoken vowels are not much better).

However, there are times when you do not want to use a vowel combination as a diphthong but rather as separate vowel sounds in two syllables. When the combination does not look like a diphthong and hence there'd be no ambiguity then you use a hiatus (see the diaeresis link; an example is the very word, "hiatus"). But when the combination looks like a diphthong, then it requires a diacritical mark to signal that those vowels are separate, hence the diaeresis.

Two examples of using the diaeresis are the words "naïve" and "Noël". The use has been slipping in some words. If you look in an older dictionary (eg, 1940's or earlier) you will also see words such "coöperate" and "coördinate" which no longer require the diaeresis -- now lacking that diaeresis it would look to an English learner that the first one starts with "coop" as in a chicken coop and the second with "coor" like the singular of a popular and bad-tasting American "beer" which is even worse than the Monty Python joke of American beer being like making love in a canoe, "f**king close to water".

Spanish makes extra use of the diaeresis for the purpose of marking an otherwise silent vowel as needing to be pronounced. Similar to French, Italian, and English (though English is inconsistent about it), the "c" and the "g" each have two different sounds depending on whether they're followed by a front vowel (eg, "i", "e") or a back vowel (eg, "a", "o", "u").

When you want to give those consonants the other value with the "wrong" vowels, then there are ways to indicate that in writing. Italian will use the "h" to make a hard "c" or "g" or an "i" to make them soft: eg, Ghirardelli chocolate, "Giuseppe", "machina" ("makina"), "ciao". French will use the "u" go make the "g" hard before a front vowel but without pronouncing the "u": eg, "guise", "guide". To make a "c" hard in French, you substitute "qu" as in "quelque", "quinze", "quitter". In English, who knows? It's just plain weird and irregular and inconsistent.

In Spanish the rules are very regular, even though the spelling changes cause teachers to classify verbs needing them as "irregular" even though they're regular in all other ways. For example, in order to keep the "s" sound of "c" you write it as "z"; eg, in "hacer", in the preterit you have "yo hice" and "él hizo". To give it a "k" sound before a front vowel, you write it as "qu" as in "queso". To give a "g" its soft sound (same as the "j"), you write it as "j" as in "justo" or "Juan" or "José". To give it its hard sound, follow it with a "u" which is not pronounced: eg, "guitarra" from which we get our "weird" spelling of "guitar".

But what if you're using the "u" to make the "g" hard and you also want it to be pronounced? In that case, you put a diaeresis over the "u". For example, "vergüenza".

 
Even though the diaeresis looks like an umlaut, they are totally different. The Umlaut represents the shifting forward of back vowels (ie, "a", "o", "u"). Using German vowels (not English!), "ä" becomes like an open "e" (common pronunciation drill to distinguish them: "Bären fressen Beeren."), the "ö" sounds like the French "eu" as in "peuple" and "peu", and the "ü" sounds like the French "u" (make the long "i" sound and round your lips -- again, German/French/normal vowels, not English!).

Historically, the Umlaut was indicated by an "e" following the affected vowel. That is still a writing convention in older names (eg, "Goethe") and when your typewriter/font don't provide umlauted vowels. In writing, that developed into writing a small "e" over the affected vowel. Since in Fraktur handwriting (eg, Sütterlin) the "e" looks like two marks, that "e" then evolved into the two dots we see now.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Phat, posted 05-16-2021 4:42 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15361
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 90 of 147 (886352)
05-16-2021 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by ringo
05-16-2021 11:06 AM


Re: Reexamining the question
Mercury writes:

What I want you to do is explain yourself and clarify your point. How do you define gender? Why do you keep equating it with sex when the former is sociological and the latter is biological? How exactly are trans people out of touch with reality? Why does it amuse you to see people distressed when they are attacked for their very identity?

I wont challenge the science. What I challenge is the "special rights" reparations issues that the Left seems to favor. Leave the Caucasians alone except to corect their ignorance and racism/sexism. But dont force them into a corner. Neither the L, the G, the B, the Q or the T...nor the BLM...have any more right to anything than the old white guy. (namely me)

Now for ringo:

ringo writes:

The issue is whether or not society "should" pay. Even when nobody can force society to pay, "should" society do the right thing?(...) If not, it's because society wants to weasel out of its debts.

Only if society can agree on who it should pay and whether such a value amount can even be determined. If society owes "itself" quit robbing Peter to pay Paul. Just leave well enough alone. The cure will be as bad or worse than the disease ever was, I can tell you that. The committee which judged such a thing couldnt be partisan...be it liberal or conservative. I say just leave things in the past as they were, fair or unfair...quit catering to special interest groups who whine about being treated unfair...work to address and redress these issues but dont go out of your way to fine the Caucasian. You will be throwing gasoline on the fire. It wont work. I never believed in affirmative action when it had to "fine" one group and reward another. Yes, things have historically been unequal. The goal should be to treat everyone equal from today forward. But don't try and fine me for Granddads moral debts. You have no right to interfere with my family personally in order to achieve your social justice goals which please the Jesus of your imagination. I will talk with my Jesus of my imagination(according to you) and He will let me know if you should be winning this argument. I'll not let some liberal feel good committee become my morality police.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by ringo, posted 05-16-2021 11:06 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by DrJones*, posted 05-16-2021 4:38 PM Phat has responded
 Message 94 by ringo, posted 05-16-2021 9:33 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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