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Author | Topic: Is science atheism? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 663 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Does it ever occur to you how rude it is to tell people they're demon-possesed? There are a few demons operating in these anti-theists."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 663 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
When I mock your ability to judge something as real or fake, I have evidence.
No more rude than it is for you to mock my capability to judge something as real or fake. Phat writes:
"Demons" is not an attempt to explain anything. It's an excuse for not bothering to look for real explanations.
Only when I experience it first hand do I even attempt to explain it. Phat writes:
Sure it does. You're rejecting the evidence that explains your experiences. Rejecting evidence is always invalid.
And just because my explanation isn't outright rejection based on known evidence makes my assessment no less valid than yours. Phat writes:
Which I don't have. I have more respect than you do for His words as recorded in the Bible.
One key giveaway regarding oppression is an innate hatred of Jesus Christ... Phat writes:
It isn't "disdain". It's recognition that He isn't necessary. His message is beneficial, if not indispensible. He himself is no more necessary than any of the other messengers who bring the same message.
... or disdain for His necessity. Phat writes:
Any rational person sees that. Theists can be rational. An anti theist sees the very idea of God incarnate as laughable yet also a very real threat to social progress."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 663 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
As I have told you many times, we are not "in love" with the idea - we're stuck with the idea. It isn't that we "can" rule - we HAVE to rule because there's nobody to do it for us.
... humanists are in love with the idea that we determine our destiny and that the collective majority can and will rule. Phat writes:
And there you go, slamming Jesus again. And ringo will use the words of Jesus as an excuse why we should all become poorer."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 663 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Raphael writes:
The default is that if they never heard of leprechauns, most people would not make them up.
If you were on an abandoned island and you never heard of any religion, would the position you come to naturally be atheism? Raphael writes:
Quite easily. If my leprechaun traps are empty, I don't need to concern myself with leprechauns.
If yes; how would you test or prove such a thing? Raphael writes:
See above. There is no need for faith when we have observations. In reality, you cannot and couldn't, therefore this would merely be a faith decision on your part."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 663 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Raphael writes:
So you're admitting that gods are made up. And don't miss the plural there. A lot of gods have been made up, along with leprechauns, fairies, bigfeet, etc. People making things up is not an argument for the existence of those things.
People make up all sorts of things though. I think you are underestimating the human imagination Raphael writes:
The same way that believers "confirm" the existence of their particular gods - by making up the data.
1) How would one build a leprechaun trap if one has no data on leprechauns? Raphael writes:
See above. The victory conditions are made up by the individual believers.
2) Consider after building said trap, how would one even know if their trap (test) was sufficient to trap (test for) leprechauns? Raphael writes:
We know what we know. The mistake you make is adding in a lot of things that you don't know.
I trust observations. However, in this case, we have no way of knowing if our tests are even able to test what we are trying to test. Raphael writes:
Bingo. That's exactly my stance on the existence of gods. Of course, I can't speak for any other atheists because we have no organization, no doctrines and no articles of faith. In conclusion, we remain leprechaun agnostics, never really knowing whether or not they are real, though an intellectually honest person would probably remain open to the possibility."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 663 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Because he isn't plainly visible to anybody. Why is God not plainly visible to everybody? Edited by ringo, : Sbelling."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 663 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
That's dishonest. Mormons, Pastafarians, etc. can pray and talk with their gods and you consider them weird and fantasy-driven. You do not identify with them and you do not agree that their version works. You certainly do have dissonance with them. I can pray and talk with God and not feel the slightest bit weird or fantasy-driven about it. I can agree with you that there is no way to objectively prove it to you. I can readily identify with other believers, who can all do it and can all agree that it works. We can describe what God "says" or imparts into us with no dissonance whatsoever."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 663 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That's exactly the point. You do consider "other" gods weird and fantasy-driven. You only identify with "other believers" who agree with you. ringo writes:
I am a Monotheist. I have a dissonance with their gods. Not them. Mormons, Pastafarians, etc. can pray and talk with their gods and you consider them weird and fantasy-driven."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 663 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Of course it is. If you think there's anything objective about your views, you have to demonstrate that. You act as if relativism is the norm."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 663 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
But of course you can. There is nothing objective to distinguish one from another.
My point is that You cant just lump all gods into the same pile. Phat writes:
You can't possibly know that. One of them actually is GOD"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 663 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
So you reject progressive knowledge based on evidence - in favor of the absolute knowledge that you already have. How arrogant. I am unmoved by only evidence...for evidence is never final..it is by nature progressive. A living Jesus speaks to my heart. An evolving concept of religion and human responses to it does not."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 663 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You can't be objective all by yourself. Every religion thinks they have the clarity that you think you have. Objective reality is something that people with different religious beliefs can agree on. I already do conceive the clarity and beauty of reality."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 663 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Pretty much has to be. Nobody can see past the beam in their own eye.
So then are you saying that objective reality is arrived at by consensus? Phat writes:
I call you arrogant because you think you know better than everybody else. And for that, you call me arrogant."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 663 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
And once again your post has nothing to do with what you quoted. So I picked the right God out of a pile of imitators.Rather, He picked me. And I've been trying to get away from Him ever since. You are right in that I don't usually listen to Him. Nobody really wants to give away all they have. Nobody that we know personally, that is. Try again. I said, "I call you arrogant because you think you know better than everybody else.""I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 663 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
There's no "yet" about it. There is no objective way to distinguish one god from another. There is no consensus on which god is the "right" one. ringo writes:
And yet you claim that objectivity is arrived at through consensus. There is nothing objective to distinguish one from another. If you can show us how your god is objectively different from the others, DO it.
Phat writes:
I know what you post here. All I know is that you dont know what I know."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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