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Author | Topic: Is science atheism? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17167 Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
quote: I can think of a number of reasons. The (correct) belief that Creationism is bad theology is an obvious one. That it is also an embarrassment to Christianity is another. And why would a Christian Church want the sectarian dogma of another - that they disagreed with - to be taught as science? quote: Atheism is nowhere near as well organised as the major Christian denominations, and if the ACLU was so powerful, why not leave it to them? quote: Debates are pretty much just a show, as we’ve recently seen. quote: None of those names are familiar. And a disregard for health risks is not a sign of scholarship. What academic publications do they have? (Rowan Williams by the way was Archbishop of Canterbury which makes him very high profile, but hardly syndicated). quote: I somehow think not.
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marc9000 Member Posts: 1279 From: Ky U.S. Joined:
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Why yes, I do. Atheist Alliance International - a positive voice for atheism and secularism The American Humanist Association Home - Secular Student Alliance Home - Secular Coalition for America quote: You don't have to look hard to find the word "science" at any of these sites. Military Association of Atheists & Freethinkers Rational Response Squad - Wikipedia Brazilian Association of Atheists and Agnostics - Wikipedia. Secular Web: Atheism, Agnosticism, Naturalism, Skepticism and Secularism The Atheist Agenda - Wikipedia Join the Trend: Wear Odd Socks | Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science About the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry | Skeptical Inquirer quote: quote: Gotta get the kiddies while they're young! The Brights' Net - Who are The Brights? The Humanist Institute: Higher Education for Humanism - TheHumanist.com
But you have plenty of websites, plenty of solicitations for contributions, and plenty of co-ordination with the ACLU to sue religious organizations every chance they get.
Occasionally yes, a lot more frequently since the establishment of the internet. Gay marriage, abortions, traditional morality, re-defining who cares about the earth and who doesn't, etc.
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nwr Member Posts: 5972 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 3.3
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As far as I know, they do not oppose creationism as broadly understood. What they oppose is creationism narrowly understood and taught in science classes in public schools contrary to the first amendment non-establishment clause. Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5072 Joined: Member Rating: 2.7 |
Uh, what the hell are you talking about? There is virtually no such thing as "non-creation Christianity." Most Christians believe in one of the many ideas about "God" that exist within Christianity -- strictly speaking, there exists as many "God ideas" as there are believers, one per each individual believer since everyone creates their own version of "God", but for purposes of discussion we can amalgamate them into a single "Christian God". Similarly, Christian doctrine, that which is taught in Christianity, differs from one denomination/sect/congregation to the next, but there are still some features with are common between all those different versions of Christian doctrine. All forms of Christian doctrine that I am aware of teach that the "Christian God" is the Creator of the universe (or at the very least of the world). That would make "non-creation Christianity" an oxymoron like "vegetable athletics", "military intelligence", "creation science", or "Republican honesty". So what the hell are you talking about? You are making absolutely no sense at all! Do you have any clue what you are babbling about?
Dr. Kenneth Miller, PhD Biology, has been a very effective opponent of creationism. In his essay, Scientific Creationism versus Evolution: The Mislabeled Debate (Science and Creationism, edited by Ashley Montegu, 1984 -- many of the essays cover the trial for the 1981 Arkansas law, McLean v. Arkansas), Dr Miller writes (my bold font added): quote: Here's a fun fact: There is no inherent conflict between Divine Creation and Evolution. There is no inherent conflict between religion and science. The only conflict that can arise is solely because of individuals and groups who choose to advance false teachings. Creationism is completely different from Creation (and belief therein). Creationism is about lying about reality, about evolution, about science, and even about Christianity. Creationism is about false theology that effectively teaches that if the world is actually how we find it to be, then God does not exist. And creationism is about deliberate deception. Yes, the majority of Christians, while believing in Creation and in a Creator, are not creationists! Indeed, since there is no such thing as your "non-creation Christianity", you are clearly on the side of the lies and deception of creationism.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5072 Joined: Member Rating: 2.7 |
The main goal of all atheist organizations in the USA is two-fold:
I would also refer you to common experience as innumerable Protestant groups engage in aggressive proselytizing. They all want to convert you, to get you to abandon your own beliefs and become clones of them. What do atheist groups want? What are they striving for? Here it is in a nutshell: Please keep your religion to yourself and leave us the fuck alone. Are those two positions in any way equivalent? If you are truly so deluded as to think that they are, then please tell us exactly and in detail why you would think such a thing. For that matter, please explain to us exactly and in detail why you object so strongly to the mere existence of atheist groups.
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marc9000 Member Posts: 1279 From: Ky U.S. Joined: |
You're not acknowledging the existence of Jar and Phat.
Neither are you. Because there really is non-creation Christianity. quote: quote: God "created" by causing an explosion? This site makes as much sense as yo do.
And it all depends on what the meaning of "is" is. It's easy to understand why atheists love theistic evolutionists so much.
I know, I read his book (over 10 years ago) "Finding Darwin's God". He showed little knowledge of Christianity.
Like those groups I listed in Message 32? Let's see, creationists aren't crazy about the influence those groups have on politics and children's education, but the OTHER kind of creationists (can we call them "TYPE 2 creationists"? ) they love it, because they believe in big bangs and a false Bible and many other things that atheists also believe?
So creationists are not Christians? (the type A ones) The type 2 ones, ARE Christians, and.....just trying to get this all straight. I'll have more questions about the "faith and reason" website that I linked above. (later this week)
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Tangle Member Posts: 8492 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 2.5
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After an extensive search of the USA you found six organisations interested in secularism. Well done.
In my very small, rural village in the UK there are three churches, a religious school and a nunnery. Within 20 miles there will be 100 or so similar. There are 43,000 churches in the UK. Plus mosques, religious schools and seminaries. Christianity is an institution imbedded in our Parliament and funded through tax concessions as charities. There is nothing even resembling that for the non-religious, there's almost nothing at all except a couple of self-funding interest groups despite 43% of the population being non-religious. There is no comparison at all. Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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vimesey Member Posts: 1309 From: Birmingham, England Joined: Member Rating: 2.9
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And that 43% is the proportion of people on surveys/censuses who are prepared to put down "atheist" or "without faith". Approximately 10% or less of the population is actually church going, so there will be a decent proportion of people who do what I used to do when I was a kid and just ticked "Church of England" for ease (I'm more self-confident and principled now).
(This analysis doesn't take into account people of other faiths, so the figures won't be as stark as that, but according to Google, 5.2% of the UK population is Muslim, 1.5% Hindu, 0.7% Sikh and 0.43% Jewish - so I reckon that people who are genuinely without faith are likely to exceed the 50% mark in reality). All that said, Country churches are usually quite pretty, and a church bell on a warm summer evening is a nice sound. Just so long as they leave me alone, and let me get on in peace with sampling a local ale in the pub garden. Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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Sarah Bellum Member Posts: 793 Joined: |
I read somewhere that the large number of churches built over the centuries throughout the UK were often the result of a lord or lady with power and money desiring to set an example by building a big building. As to whether the community was big enough to require such capacity or, indeed whether the people did come to worship in great numbers anyway is another issue.
Still, building edifices is a more constructive use of money than going to war, so I'll give them that, at least.
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Tangle Member Posts: 8492 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
“According to the National Congregational Study Survey, there are an estimated 380,000 churches in the U.S.”
UK population 68m, 43,000 churches = 1 church:1,581 people Over building churches seems to be a pretty common trait. I wonder where the nearest structure for the worship of atheism is? Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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anglagard Member (Idle past 73 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined:
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Well, the problem is many European and at least one Asian nation established a state religion, whereas the USA has this First Amendment thingy. Now when a nation establishes an official state religion, history has shown it is the greatest recruiting tool for Atheism ever invented. Ask Japan, ask Scandinavia, ask the UK. I find this phenomena quite entertaining as I am in the USA because it shows that if the Evangelicals get their way and turn the nation into a Fundamentalist dictatorship, human beings will reject you to the point of Atheism, which I consider a vast improvement over Nazism. So, fundies, evangelicals, holy-rollers, 7ths, keep recruiting others to my cause, which means your nonexistence. So, just want to let mom know that despite our earlier differences, well, mom is still mom, even if we are the rowdiest kids in the herd. Keep up the good work! Rather have more atheists who heal the sick, feed the poor, and comfort the afflicted, than any more "Christians" who reject the words of Christ (or the closest facsimile we have). The problem with knowing everything is learning nothing. If you don't know what you're doing, find someone who does, and do what they do. Republican = death
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Phat Member Posts: 15944 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
Theism and Money are closely related. And ringo will use the words of Jesus as an excuse why we should all become poorer. You liberals and your progressive Christianity are a scam. I'll never be too greedy to voluntarily donate but I'll be damned if I let government send me the tithing bill. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 15944 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
You and I dont see eye to eye.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 15944 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
That being said, I do believe in the trinity, Jesus as Gods character to and for humanity, and a Creator of all seen and unseen who in fact does care about us more than Uranus or Pond Scum. God is not simply some Biodiversity superdude. jar of course has his own universe of theories.
The *other* guys believe in a progressive, human-centric Christianity. Edited by Phat, : No reason given. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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PaulK Member Posts: 17167 Joined: Member Rating: 3.7
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Phat, can you please save the silly scare-mongering for a more appropriate thread.
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