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Author Topic:   Bit Coin: 2 bit bubble
Phat
Member
Posts: 15602
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 1 of 178 (886479)
05-21-2021 4:07 PM


Asset Bubbles, Inflation, and Cryptic Cryptos
Im off to work so I'll just start this topic for now. In it I want to broadly discus current global finance, the rise of cryptocurrencies and the pros and cons of such speculation, and the traditional roles of commodities, real estate, precious metals and the intrinsic value historically assigned, as well as the Elephant In The Room:
Looming future Inflation.

My basic position, after doing a bit of research, is that inflation is not only inevtable but likely steeper than the media is aware of or chooses to report. (Dont spook the cattle)

Bit Coin is not an investment but merely a speculative piece of "property" created by humans. Though some have made money at cryptos, the overall consensus in my neck of the woods is that it (they) are simply asset bubbles which will prove to again support the greater fool theory.

Gold? Though a solid value for near perpetuity, Gold is under the control of the IMF and the Central Banks. Plus the governments could make it illegal to own....again.

Which leaves my favorite investment: Silver.

Please comment your own 2 cents worth. I will be back late tonite and am awake and functional in the mornings...Mountain Time.

Edited by Phat, : sub title


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by nwr, posted 05-21-2021 10:35 PM Phat has responded

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5791
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.6


(2)
Message 2 of 178 (886487)
05-21-2021 10:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
05-21-2021 4:07 PM


Re: Asset Bubbles, Inflation, and Cryptic Cryptos
I don't really have much to say about all of this. But I'll comment anyway.

Looming future Inflation.

It is hard to predict inflation. I have been concerned about it since Trump tried to juice the economy with his 2017 tax cut. But that didn't have the anticipated effect. Most of the extra money, instead of causing inflation, went to pad bank accounts of the already rich. But that might set the stage for future inflation.

On the other hand, the pandemic has cooled things of somewhat. And Biden's proposed tax increased might further dampen inflationary trends. So, as already said, it is hard to predict.

cryptocurrencies

I have been skeptical of these from the start.

The basic problem is that there is nothing backing them. Ordinary dollars are backed by the good will of the American people. The only backing I see for cryptocurrencies is from hackers, crooks and other miscreants.

While we are about it, I'll comment on libertarianism. Typical libertarians think that the money they have is theirs, and they shouldn't pay taxes on it. But the money is just paper. It gets it value from the good will of the American people. If the libertarians screw too much with the average American, they might lose that good will backing. And where will they be then?

Money only has value as part of a community. And libertarians typically want to shun responsibilities to the community that they want to rip off.

Oh, and by the way Phat, you seem to have some of those libertarian tendencies. You might want to think about that.


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Phat, posted 05-21-2021 4:07 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 05-22-2021 1:41 PM nwr has responded
 Message 7 by Phat, posted 05-23-2021 1:33 PM nwr has acknowledged this reply
 Message 9 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 05-24-2021 3:22 PM nwr has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15602
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 3 of 178 (886497)
05-22-2021 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by nwr
05-21-2021 10:35 PM


Re: Asset Bubbles, Inflation, and Cryptic Cryptos
Interesting perspective. Im starting the day out a bit calmer than yesterday. From the time I get up until the time im off work, I cannot avoid thinking about money. Its not so much that I love it. I don't. I try my best to love and trust God. (Though I will admit that I expect Him to take care of me and I sense that this world is not only *not* fair, but that my critics might be right and that we *do* have to fully take care of ourselves. And this not only scares me but upsets me greatly. I have entitlement issues from long ago in my dysfunctional childhood, and am thus sensitive when I see others benefiting and seemingly leaving this old man alone and forgotten.

nwr writes:

Typical libertarians think that the money they have is theirs, and they shouldn't pay taxes on it. But the money is just paper. It gets it value from the good will of the American people.

I feel that taxes are fair if they are reasonable and if the majority of the "value units" that I work for belong to me. The apologists may have well warped my mind with their tales of how a One World Government headed by an evil figure who appears good to many will basically totally control the global money. In this scenario, nobody can buy anything nor sell anything independent of this devious system.

To me that is grossly outrageous and unfair. What gets me is that in many of the pro liberal common good for all people arguments, the idea of a government using and controlling the money seems preferable to a bunch of authoritarian pirates and robber barons stealing it all from the masses.

Perhaps I am Libertarian, I dunno. I'll have to research the meaning which libertarians assign to themselves.

Money only has value as part of a community. And libertarians typically want to shun responsibilities to the community that they want to rip off.
I wouldn't say that I wanted to rip off anyone individually. Collectively, I will resist a government who controls my contributions and manages individual values for the good of all.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by nwr, posted 05-21-2021 10:35 PM nwr has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by nwr, posted 05-22-2021 2:54 PM Phat has responded
 Message 8 by ringo, posted 05-23-2021 1:44 PM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15602
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 4 of 178 (886498)
05-22-2021 2:13 PM


For The Record
As of today (May 22, 2021) the values of the "stuff" we are talking about are as follows:

Yahoo Finance writes:

S&P 500: 4,155.56
Crude Oil: 63.88
Gold:

quote:
(Bloomberg) -- Gold headed for a third straight weekly gain as investors weighed signs of inflation and economic recovery.
The precious metal is trading near the highest level in more than four months amid rising inflation expectations, static Treasury yields and concerns of a resurgence of coronavirus cases in some countries. Holdings in exchange-traded funds backed by the precious metal have resumed an uptrend.
“Higher U.S. inflation and lower government bonds yields have lifted gold back” to $1,870 an ounce, UBS AG analysts including Wayne Gordon wrote in a note.

Bullion gave up some early gains on Friday on a strengthening U.S. dollar, though not enough to upset the precious metal’s push toward its third straight weekly increase. The greenback rose after the release of data showing output at U.S. manufacturers and service providers advanced to a fresh record in May. Gold is up 2% for the week.
Still, UBS analysts kept their end of year forecast for gold unchanged at $1,600 an ounce, as “we expect fading inflation surprises, higher U.S. government bond yields, rising vaccination pace to reduce uncertainty and the U.S. dollar to peak.”
Still, UBS analysts kept their end of year forecast for gold unchanged at $1,600 an ounce, as “we expect fading inflation surprises, higher U.S. government bond yields, rising vaccination pace to reduce uncertainty and the U.S. dollar to peak.”


I totally disagree with the analysts. My intuition tells me that Gold is being held down as usual and that there is an attempt to downplay inflation when in reality it is indeed the Elephant In The Room.
Silver is a better investment as it has many uses. Demand is expected (by Phat) to rise sharply in the next 6 months. Smart money has no other place to park except stocks. And I predict that the sharp and steady rise(rebounding from Covid19) is coming to an end soon.
Yahoo writes:

Silver Jul 21 (SI=F)27.66-0.41 (-1.45%)

(up over 2.5% for the past month. Watch the bull market begin within 6 months.)
  • Bitcoin: Went from $58K to 38K in a month. No future there.

    For this topic, I will watch inflation, S&P 500, Oil, Gold, Silver and Bitcoin. Tangle will claim that I am a typical fundie doom & gloomer and I will not disagree except to say that my predictions for humanity are optimistic, based on the God I know. We will have some tough rapids ahead to navigate, however.


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


  •   
    nwr
    Member
    Posts: 5791
    From: Geneva, Illinois
    Joined: 08-08-2005
    Member Rating: 4.6


    Message 5 of 178 (886499)
    05-22-2021 2:54 PM
    Reply to: Message 3 by Phat
    05-22-2021 1:41 PM


    Re: Asset Bubbles, Inflation, and Cryptic Cryptos
    From the time I get up until the time im off work, I cannot avoid thinking about money. Its not so much that I love it. I don't.

    You are fooling yourself. Yes, you do love money. That's why you spend so much time thinking about it.

    The apologists may have well warped my mind with their tales of how a One World Government headed by an evil figure who appears good to many will basically totally control the global money.

    It's nonsense. But the apologists use it as a threat to control. And they seem to be successful at that (at controlling you).

    Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 3 by Phat, posted 05-22-2021 1:41 PM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 6 by Phat, posted 05-23-2021 1:27 PM nwr has acknowledged this reply
     Message 23 by Phat, posted 05-29-2021 3:36 PM nwr has acknowledged this reply

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15602
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 6 of 178 (886542)
    05-23-2021 1:27 PM
    Reply to: Message 5 by nwr
    05-22-2021 2:54 PM


    Re: Asset Bubbles, Inflation, and Cryptic Cryptos
    nwr writes:

    You are fooling yourself. Yes, you do love money. That's why you spend so much time thinking about it.

    I realize how much of a role money has played in my psycho-social development (or handicaps) and my world view. I will admit to being obsessed with money only in that it is a quantifiable way of seeming to ease my pain.

    Loving money is as silly as loving gun and pen collections. Upon reflection, my brain is really screwed up at times. The whole reason that I started this topic was to express my beliefs and views on the future of the people and the tough times which inevitably come. To be honest, I hold out a hope that I will be smart enough to escape the crash and the paying of the ominous bill due. I have a lot of pet up emotions regarding fairness, entitlement, and those who would seek to destabilize the system I grew up in for some social justice cause at equality and redistribution of wealth. For some reason I like to argue. To pick fights (verbally) as it partially satisfies my own need for purpose, honor, and duty in life. I'm a 2 bit hack with a sack of unearned privileges who does not want that taken from me. And yet my inner Christ tells me I must let go.


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 5 by nwr, posted 05-22-2021 2:54 PM nwr has acknowledged this reply

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15602
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    (1)
    Message 7 of 178 (886543)
    05-23-2021 1:33 PM
    Reply to: Message 2 by nwr
    05-21-2021 10:35 PM


    Money And Community
    nwr writes:

    Money only has value as part of a community.

    That is one of the wisest tings you have ever said. So obvious too. I cannot believe that I never saw the big picture like that.

    I have a lot of childhood emotional issues that can hopefully be worked out through therapy (I go once a month) and interaction with the loyal EvC Community. Though I rarely agree with any of you, you help me think more than you know.


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 2 by nwr, posted 05-21-2021 10:35 PM nwr has acknowledged this reply

      
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 19230
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 3.7


    (2)
    Message 8 of 178 (886544)
    05-23-2021 1:44 PM
    Reply to: Message 3 by Phat
    05-22-2021 1:41 PM


    Re: Asset Bubbles, Inflation, and Cryptic Cryptos
    Phat writes:

    From the time I get up until the time im off work, I cannot avoid thinking about money.


    To me, money has never seemed real.

    In the olden days, I used to go to work every day; every two weeks they'd give me a piece of paper with numbers on it. I'd take it to the bank and they'd give me some other pieces of paper with numbers on them; I'd take them to the store and they'd give me food, clothing, etc. for them. Pieces of paper with numbers on them would come in the mail from the phone company and the electric company; I'd write the same numbers on other pieces of paper and send them back and I would magically get electricity and phone service.

    Today, it's even less real. I get one piece of paper in the mail every month; It tells me that somebody has been putting numbers into the bank and somebody else has been taking them out. At the store I insert a plastic card and punch in some numbers and they give me food, clothing, etc.

    The only time I think about "money" is when the number at the bottom of the bank statement gets smaller.

    Phat writes:

    The apologists may have well warped my mind with their tales of how a One World Government....


    In reality, it's going in the opposite direction. The Soviet Union fragmented. Yugoslavia fragmented. Even little Czechoslovakia fragmented. The Age of Empires is over.

    Edited by ringo, : Snelling.


    "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 3 by Phat, posted 05-22-2021 1:41 PM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 10 by Phat, posted 05-25-2021 2:24 AM ringo has responded
     Message 17 by Phat, posted 05-28-2021 10:25 AM ringo has responded

      
    AnswersInGenitals
    Member
    Posts: 628
    Joined: 07-20-2006
    Member Rating: 4.3


    (1)
    Message 9 of 178 (886567)
    05-24-2021 3:22 PM
    Reply to: Message 2 by nwr
    05-21-2021 10:35 PM


    Re: Asset Bubbles, Inflation, and Cryptic Cryptos
    “Due to its use of blockchain technology, cryptocurrencies are unbreakable and unhackable.” That statement is not a fact, it is a challenge. As soon as someone figures out how to counterfeit cryptocurrencies, their value will tank and they will disappear. And counterfeiting cryptocurrencies won’t even be a crime since they are not supported by any pubic entity. It probably would not even fall under tort law, i. e., the counterfeiter probably could not be sued by anyone since no-one owns the technology.

    N.B.: Any or all of the above might not be correct since I really don’t know what I’m talking (posting) about.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 2 by nwr, posted 05-21-2021 10:35 PM nwr has acknowledged this reply

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15602
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 10 of 178 (886571)
    05-25-2021 2:24 AM
    Reply to: Message 8 by ringo
    05-23-2021 1:44 PM


    Re: Asset Bubbles, Inflation, and Cryptic Cryptos
    ringo writes:

    The Soviet Union fragmented. Yugoslavia fragmented. Even little Czechoslovakia fragmented. The Age of Empires is over

    Lets keep the money topic here and take the philosophy to the sister topic.
    Message 1

    One last thing I did note in your reply, however:

    ringo writes:

    To me money has never seemed real...The only time I think about "money" is when the number at the bottom of the bank statement gets smaller.

    Maybe now you can understand my anxieties and why I dont immediately do what Jesus said and give it *all* up. My bank statement would say zero and the bills in the mail would keep coming.
    But lets discuss it at Message 1

    Stay tuned for more business propaganda and discussions. The finance guys have their "lying apologists" too!


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 8 by ringo, posted 05-23-2021 1:44 PM ringo has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 14 by ringo, posted 05-25-2021 2:30 PM Phat has responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15602
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 11 of 178 (886573)
    05-25-2021 4:16 AM


    Bitcoin vs Gold: The Great Debate
    The world of finance has its apologists just like organized religion does. Some of them sound more intelligent than others and they have some theories as to what may or may not happen in the global financial markets in the near future. Here is one such debate/discussion. I highlighted relevant parts(points being made) from the transcript.
    Both of these men are knowledgeable within their respective are of finance.
    Michael J.SaylorArguing for Bitcoin
    Frank Giustra Defending Gold


    Snippets from the transcript:

    Transcript:2:55-4:12 writes:

    (Saylor) I think that all gold holders and all bitcoin holders agree on sound money principles and the real debate is which is the best monetary system in order to pursue the ideals of sound money.
    So i think we start with some basic ideas. First of all human civilization rises
    through channeling energy. We invented fire that's capturing chemical energy uh then we build our cities next to rivers we're capturing water and we're channeling gravitational
    energy the aqueducts were critical to the roman civilization when we compress air
    in a canister we're channeling uh pressure uh electric systems and batteries are channeling energy
    lasers or channeling photons if we want to better the human condition we need to be able to capture store and channel that energy.
    money is energy money's a store of value and it's also a technology allows us to trade
    that energy over time and space so if we look at the history of money we've gone from commodity money to coinage of those commodities to notes represented by that money to fiat currency and now we have cryptography as a basis of money...


    Sounds like he may have readGuns, Germs & Steel.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    Replies to this message:
     Message 12 by nwr, posted 05-25-2021 9:49 AM Phat has responded

      
    nwr
    Member
    Posts: 5791
    From: Geneva, Illinois
    Joined: 08-08-2005
    Member Rating: 4.6


    Message 12 of 178 (886575)
    05-25-2021 9:49 AM
    Reply to: Message 11 by Phat
    05-25-2021 4:16 AM


    Re: Bitcoin vs Gold: The Great Debate
    The world of finance has its apologists just like organized religion does.

    There's an overlap. Have you ever noticed how wealthy some of the religious people are?

    Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 11 by Phat, posted 05-25-2021 4:16 AM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 13 by Phat, posted 05-25-2021 1:45 PM nwr has acknowledged this reply

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15602
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 13 of 178 (886576)
    05-25-2021 1:45 PM
    Reply to: Message 12 by nwr
    05-25-2021 9:49 AM


    For The Love Of Money
    nwr writes:

    There's an overlap. Have you ever noticed how wealthy some of the religious people are?

    Oh yes, I do know. Kenneth Copeland is the wealthiest, but his land has natural gas on it so not all of his wealth came from the faithful flock. In regards to these financiers, however...the two men in the video which I shared are both billionaires. I shared their wiki bios, however in order to show that they are skilled at what they claim to represent. Common sense says that they each likely see the big picture within finance and the future of global wealth.

    Michael J.SaylorArguing for Bitcoin.

    Wiki writes:

    Michael J. Saylor (born February 4, 1965) is an American entrepreneur and business executive, who co-founded and leads MicroStrategy, a company which provides business intelligence, mobile software, and cloud-based services.(...)On MicroStrategy's quarterly earnings conference call in July 2020, Saylor announced his intention for MicroStrategy to explore purchasing Bitcoin, gold, or other alternative assets instead of holding cash. The following month, MicroStrategy used $250 million from its cash stockpile to purchase 21,454 Bitcoin.[22]

    MicroStrategy later added $175 million of Bitcoin to its holdings in September 2020 and another $50 million in early December 2020. On December 11, 2020, MicroStrategy announced that it had sold $650 million in convertible senior notes, taking on debt to increase its Bitcoin holdings to over $1 billion worth. On December 21, 2020 MicroStrategy announced their total holdings include 70,470 bitcoins purchased for $1.125 billion at an average price of $15,964 per bitcoin.[23] As of February 24, 2021 holdings include 90,531 bitcoins acquired for $2.171 billion at an average price of $23,985 per bitcoin.[24] Saylor, who controls 70% of MicroStrategy's shares, dismissed concerns by observers that the move is turning MicroStrategy into a Bitcoin investment firm or exchange-traded fund (ETF).

    One thing is likely factual, however. The US Dollar is losing 1% per month in purchasing power(thats 12% per year) in the current markets.
    Frank Giustra Defending Gold

    wiki writes:

    Frank Giustra CM OBC (born August 1957) is a Canadian businessman, mining financier and global philanthropist, who also founded Lionsgate Entertainment. He is CEO of Fiore Group of Companies and co-chair of International Crisis Group. From 2001 to 2007, he was the chairman of the merchant banking firm, Endeavour Financial, which financed mining companies. His net worth is not known but is estimated to be at least $1 billion.

    Both men have a personal interest in the investment which they are defending.

    As to whether Kenneth Copeland, or Pat Robertson, or Joel Osteen, or any of the Christian wealth barons have any stake in investments, I dont really know or care...apart from the honesty or dishonestly involved in acquiring wealth. At least the two financial guys seemed to acquire their wealth honestly.

    Were I a Minister or well known Christian Apologist/preacher, I would be careful how much money I earned from the largess of others. I would also give away a lot of it (though not all...unless the Lord prompted me)

    Finally...if I believed what I preached and warned people that tough times were ahead, I would likely invest in hings such as Gold or Silver that had intrinsic value and were counter-cyclical investments from the S&P 500 or DJIA. We all must give an account of our behavior as stewards of what He has given us. That goes for secular financiers as well as Evangelists.


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 12 by nwr, posted 05-25-2021 9:49 AM nwr has acknowledged this reply

    Replies to this message:
     Message 15 by ringo, posted 05-25-2021 2:33 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 19230
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 3.7


    (2)
    Message 14 of 178 (886577)
    05-25-2021 2:30 PM
    Reply to: Message 10 by Phat
    05-25-2021 2:24 AM


    Re: Asset Bubbles, Inflation, and Cryptic Cryptos
    Phat writes:

    Maybe now you can understand my anxieties and why I dont immediately do what Jesus said and give it *all* up.


    My anecdote was intended to convey the exact opposite - that because money isn't real, giving it all up isn't giving up anything real. The only thing that's real is the community.

    "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 10 by Phat, posted 05-25-2021 2:24 AM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 16 by Phat, posted 05-28-2021 10:19 AM ringo has responded

      
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 19230
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 3.7


    (1)
    Message 15 of 178 (886578)
    05-25-2021 2:33 PM
    Reply to: Message 13 by Phat
    05-25-2021 1:45 PM


    Re: For The Love Of Money
    Phat writes:

    I would also give away a lot of it (though not all...unless the Lord prompted me)


    He did.

    "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 13 by Phat, posted 05-25-2021 1:45 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
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