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Author Topic:   Bit Coin: 2 bit bubble
ringo
Member
Posts: 19226
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 136 of 178 (887509)
08-07-2021 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by Phat
08-07-2021 8:31 AM


Re: Can We Have A Fact Based Discussion?
Phat writes:

I have long suspected that the final currency will be concretely linked to humans and that we will be assigned a value in order to back this currency system.


Maybe you should think that through in a positive light rather than a negative light. I consider the bottom line my ability to work - i.e. my ability to trade my skills for the necessities of life. (Maybe you've noticed that in hard times - e.g the Great Depression and even today - you'll see people with signs that read, "Will work for food.")

Phat writes:

Not sure exactly how this will play out, and I will admit to being influenced by Biblical dogmatic "fantasies" yet unproven.


Your fantasies are based more on right-wing politics than the Bible. The right-wing rich have a vested interest in keeping you poor.

Phat writes:

Again, the metals will always have value until the very "end" of this life on this planet....


Have you ever considered investing in bridges? They're made of metal.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Phat, posted 08-07-2021 8:31 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Phat, posted 08-07-2021 2:07 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply
 Message 138 by Phat, posted 08-09-2021 4:29 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Inactive Member


Message 137 of 178 (887512)
08-07-2021 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by ringo
08-07-2021 12:05 PM


Re: Can We Have A Fact Based Discussion?
Have you ever considered investing in bridges? They're made of metal.

Well...bridges are certainly a better investment than walls!

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by ringo, posted 08-07-2021 12:05 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Inactive Member


Message 138 of 178 (887553)
08-09-2021 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by ringo
08-07-2021 12:05 PM


Re: Can We Have A Fact Based Discussion?
The right-wing rich have a vested interest in keeping you poor.
Since you are generalizing, I can only reply in kind. The "Left Wing" rich, of which there are many (mainly urban professionals with lots of college) are not as concerned with money as they are with power. They seek to keep me responsible for higher taxes to pay off the bill and to allow them to implement the tax coffers to help the poor disenfranchised masses...whom they claim to care about yet are mainly interested in the collective vote of. And they will righteously claim that they earn their wages and that I need to stand in line behind the masses.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by ringo, posted 08-07-2021 12:05 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by nwr, posted 08-09-2021 5:04 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 140 by dwise1, posted 08-10-2021 3:17 AM Phat has responded
 Message 141 by Percy, posted 08-10-2021 11:26 AM Phat has responded
 Message 142 by ringo, posted 08-10-2021 11:46 AM Phat has responded

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5789
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 139 of 178 (887556)
08-09-2021 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Phat
08-09-2021 4:29 PM


Re: Can We Have A Fact Based Discussion?
The "Left Wing" rich, of which there are many (mainly urban professionals with lots of college) are not as concerned with money as they are with power.

This is what the right wing propagandists are telling you. Unfortunately, you are gullible enough to believe them.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Phat, posted 08-09-2021 4:29 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 4702
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 140 of 178 (887562)
08-10-2021 3:17 AM
Reply to: Message 138 by Phat
08-09-2021 4:29 PM


Re: Can We Have A Fact Based Discussion?
They seek to keep me responsible for higher taxes to pay off the bill and to allow them to implement the tax coffers to help the poor disenfranchised masses...

You're one of the super-rich? Then why have you been pretending all this time to be a struggling working stiff? Get a kick out of slumming much, do you?

The call is to get the super-rich (and their huge corporations) to pay their share of the taxes for a change, not most of the middle class or lower. As I recall, the proposed cutoff annual income would be about $200,000.

At my highest while working, I was making a bit less than half of that. What was the annual income of your false identity of a middle-class working stiff supposed to be?

 
Now, the actual middle class (not sure where I fall now as a retired senior, except towards the side when I stand up after sitting for a while) does stand to see our taxes increase this year. Not because of anything that the Democrats or Biden have done, except for winning the election (really!).

Instead, this year's planned tax increase was designed into the Republicans' Great Tax Scam of 2017. While the super-rich and corporations got over 80% of the benefits from that massive hole that Republicans blew in the deficit (and increased the debt with the country getting virtually no return on that "investment"), they did toss some table scraps to the middle class to mollify them in the form of some small tax breaks. While the cuts for the rich were made permanent, the cuts for the middle class were made deliberately temporary, started out small, and decreased every year until finally this year those "cuts" now become tax increases.

So, this appears to have been their strategy for deliberately scheduling middle-class tax increases in this year after the Presidential Election. If Trump would win, they could use it as an excuse for yet another tax scam give-away to the rich as part of their "correcting" that increase for the middle class. But if Trump were to lose, then they could blame that tax increase on the Democratic President -- for that matter, they haven't hesitated to blame Biden and Pelosi for things that Trump had screwed up (eg, "Why did Pelosi not mobilize the National Guard on 06 Jan?"; uh, because she's not authorized to do that, but rather that was Trump's duty so where was Trump?).

So when your taxes go up this year, please remember whom to blame for that. Oh yeah, you're super-rich. You made out like a bandit on our backs!

F**k you very much, sir. Would you like another one, please? (based on yet another movie reference: Kevin Bacon's first spoken line referenced in Steve Carell's remake of "Get Smart".)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Phat, posted 08-09-2021 4:29 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by Phat, posted 08-12-2021 7:33 AM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20219
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 141 of 178 (887565)
08-10-2021 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 138 by Phat
08-09-2021 4:29 PM


Re: Can We Have A Fact Based Discussion?
I agree with dwise1 - your story keeps changing. You often use yourself as an example, and your situation changes according to your argument of the moment. Are you rich, middle class or poor? Have your reached a diabetic crisis point or are you healthy? Do you trust neither side's characterization of the other, or do you get all your information about both liberals and conservatives from the Republicans?

You're like a debate chameleon lately. I often feel moved to reply, but then I usually realize there's no point to replying because in no time your position will have shifted.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Phat, posted 08-09-2021 4:29 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by Phat, posted 08-12-2021 7:26 AM Percy has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19226
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 142 of 178 (887566)
08-10-2021 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 138 by Phat
08-09-2021 4:29 PM


Re: Can We Have A Fact Based Discussion?
Phat writes:

Since you are generalizing....


I'm not, actually, so you can stop trying to duck the issue. Stop the pot-calling-the kettle-black approach and reply to what I said:
quote:
The right-wing rich have a vested interest in keeping you poor.
Since you are (presumably) not one of them, you have no reason to defend them.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Phat, posted 08-09-2021 4:29 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by dwise1, posted 08-10-2021 1:11 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply
 Message 144 by Phat, posted 08-12-2021 7:17 AM ringo has responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 4702
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 143 of 178 (887569)
08-10-2021 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by ringo
08-10-2021 11:46 AM


Re: Can We Have A Fact Based Discussion?
Stop the pot-calling-the kettle-black approach ...

I've heard a variation which is much more apt: "The pot calling the silverware black."

IOW, accusing the other side of your own bad qualities that the other side does not in fact possess.

I heard it in the context of what creationists do when you try to discuss their claims with them.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by ringo, posted 08-10-2021 11:46 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Inactive Member


Message 144 of 178 (887586)
08-12-2021 7:17 AM
Reply to: Message 142 by ringo
08-10-2021 11:46 AM


Re: Can We Have A Fact Based Discussion?
All i'm defending is the right to get wealthy without having the crap taxed out of you.

If you take away the incentives to get wealthy, you kill the small businessman and support the poor impoverished masses....at the expense of the working class. It's the same old argument that I have defended before.
If I were to make a lot of money on my silver, your ilk would likely find a way to tax me excessively for it.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by ringo, posted 08-10-2021 11:46 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by nwr, posted 08-12-2021 11:03 AM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 149 by ringo, posted 08-12-2021 11:51 AM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 152 by dwise1, posted 08-12-2021 4:29 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 153 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 08-12-2021 4:58 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 154 by DrJones*, posted 08-12-2021 7:47 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Inactive Member


Message 145 of 178 (887587)
08-12-2021 7:26 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by Percy
08-10-2021 11:26 AM


Pinning Phat To A Definite Position
Percy writes:

your story keeps changing. You often use yourself as an example, and your situation changes according to your argument of the moment. Are you rich, middle class or poor? Have your reached a diabetic crisis point or are you healthy? Do you trust neither side's characterization of the other, or do you get all your information about both liberals and conservatives from the Republicans?

Honestly? (Ive never been forced to take a definitive position, but here it goes!---
Percy writes:

  • Are you rich, middle class or poor?
  • I earn roughly $27,000.00 a year. I have no real wealth except the apartment condo that my Mom left me.
  • Have you reached a diabetic crisis point or are you healthy?
  • I recently had an A1C of 10.4% and am fighting to get healthy. I have been eating better but I have a ways to go.
  • Do you trust neither side's characterization of the other, or do you get all your information about both liberals and conservatives from the Republicans?
  • I think I tend to lean more towards Republicans, though I never liked nor supported Trump. I do favor Conservatism and would point to Dr.Milton Friedman as my example of sound policy.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 141 by Percy, posted 08-10-2021 11:26 AM Percy has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 165 by Percy, posted 08-18-2021 4:07 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    Phat
    Inactive Member


    Message 146 of 178 (887588)
    08-12-2021 7:33 AM
    Reply to: Message 140 by dwise1
    08-10-2021 3:17 AM


    Re: Can We Have A Fact Based Discussion?
    dwise1 writes:

    What was the annual income of your false identity of a middle-class working stiff supposed to be?

    In my dreams I would love to double my income. I fear excessive taxation, but if what you say is right, I can make under $100,000 a year and still be ok. So maybe I did believe the right-wing propaganda.

    Perhaps I agree with you guys more than I think. I believe in freedom to live comfortably rather than mandatory obligations (and taxation) to help the uneducated and unemployed poor get free handouts and stimulus checks. I say we all (under $100.000 a year) folks should get them.


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 140 by dwise1, posted 08-10-2021 3:17 AM dwise1 has not yet responded

      
    Phat
    Inactive Member


    Message 147 of 178 (887589)
    08-12-2021 7:51 AM
    Reply to: Message 127 by Phat
    08-07-2021 7:22 AM


    Todays Facts from Yahoo Finance
    Yahoo Finance writes:

    From 08/06/2021:
    BitCoin: $43,487.92
    Up $2,908.06 or 7.16%.
    ----------------------------
    Gold: $1758.40. Down $46.70 or 2.59%.
    ----------------------------
    Silver: $24.33. Down .96 or 3.80%.

    From 8/11/2021:
    BitCoin: $45,091.65
    Down $925.77 or -2.01%
    ----------------------------
    Gold: $1751.50 Down $1.80 or .10%
    ----------------------------
    Silver: $23.38 Down .50%


    ----------------------------------------------------------
    I'm not at all surprised by these trends. The precious metals are forecast to rally by year-end and will explode if the stocks become spooked. The BitCoin crowd is more clueless and favors their crypto over precious metals but they too will learn a lesson in economics when that day comes.
    I see $100.00 silver and $3000.00+ Gold.
    Ringo does have a point in that when I see that level I should sell and take my profits rather than hang on and hope for $200.00 silver. The safety deposit box itself costs $50.00 a year!

    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 127 by Phat, posted 08-07-2021 7:22 AM Phat has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 150 by ringo, posted 08-12-2021 11:53 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
     Message 151 by AZPaul3, posted 08-12-2021 4:22 PM Phat has not yet responded
     Message 155 by dwise1, posted 08-12-2021 10:13 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
     Message 156 by anglagard, posted 08-15-2021 6:39 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    nwr
    Member
    Posts: 5789
    From: Geneva, Illinois
    Joined: 08-08-2005
    Member Rating: 4.7


    (1)
    Message 148 of 178 (887590)
    08-12-2021 11:03 AM
    Reply to: Message 144 by Phat
    08-12-2021 7:17 AM


    Re: Can We Have A Fact Based Discussion?
    All i'm defending is the right to get wealthy without having the crap taxed out of you.

    Bullshit.

    You are defending the "right" of the greedy to steal from the poor.

    If you take away the incentives to get wealthy, ...

    Nobody is trying to take away the incentives to get wealthy.

    ... and support the poor impoverished masses....at the expense of the working class.

    This is mostly a right wing myth. Most of the "impoverished masses" are the working class.

    Yes, there are other really poor people, but there are not masses of them.

    You presumably count yourself as working class. Yet you consistently vote for the Republicans who want higher taxes on you so that the super-wealthy can pay less.

    If I were to make a lot of money on my silver, your ilk would likely find a way to tax me excessively for it.

    The working stiff toils hard to earn enough to make ends meet. You want to get rich without work, by means of your gambling in silver.

    All we say, is that you should pay the same percentage of taxes on those capital gains as the working stiff pays on his wages. What's excessive about that?


    Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 144 by Phat, posted 08-12-2021 7:17 AM Phat has not yet responded

      
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 19226
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 3.7


    Message 149 of 178 (887591)
    08-12-2021 11:51 AM
    Reply to: Message 144 by Phat
    08-12-2021 7:17 AM


    Re: Can We Have A Fact Based Discussion?
    Phat writes:

    All i'm defending is the right to get wealthy without having the crap taxed out of you.


    I said in Message 136:
    quote:
    The right-wing rich have a vested interest in keeping you poor.
    You responded in Message 138 with a lot of unrelated hogwash.

    I repeated in Message 142:

    quote:
    The right-wing rich have a vested interest in keeping you poor.
    and you STILL haven't addressed that.

    Let's try one more time:

    quote:
    The right-wing rich have a vested interest in keeping you poor.
    Discuss.

    "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 144 by Phat, posted 08-12-2021 7:17 AM Phat has not yet responded

      
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 19226
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 3.7


    Message 150 of 178 (887592)
    08-12-2021 11:53 AM
    Reply to: Message 147 by Phat
    08-12-2021 7:51 AM


    Re: Todays Facts from Yahoo Finance
    Phat writes:

    The safety deposit box itself costs $50.00 a year!


    I keep my spare change in a coffee can.

    "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 147 by Phat, posted 08-12-2021 7:51 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
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