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Author Topic:   More Trumper Inanity
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2092
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


(3)
Message 46 of 79 (889064)
11-01-2021 2:43 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by marc9000
10-31-2021 9:24 PM


the Marc9000 bot squawks
for example he rewrites shit:
Bernie Sanders (socialist, VT) has a 12 point plan.

Here it is, simplified;

1)Grow the government on borrowed / printed money.
2)Use climate change fear to grow the government.
3)Make workers more dependent on government.
4)More unions, heavily influenced by government control.
5)Put the government in control of wage amounts.
6)Government control of women's wages.
7End current trade policies, with...who knows what. Here's a wild guess, more government involvement.
8)College education, paid for by borrowed / printed money, that the government provides.
9)Government control of financial institutions
10)Government control of healthcare.
11)more government control of the everyday lives of seniors and children.
12)Tax the productive out of existence.

Marc, do yourself and all of us a favor and get the fuck out of here.

Edited by xongsmith, : spell it marc


"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."

- xongsmith, 5.7d


This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by marc9000, posted 10-31-2021 9:24 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by marc9000, posted 11-01-2021 5:32 AM xongsmith has not yet responded

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1254
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 47 of 79 (889069)
11-01-2021 5:27 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by kjsimons
10-31-2021 9:39 PM


Re: What does the evidence show?
Way to move the goal posts. Climate change is an issue that effects all people on the planet and so it behooves us to address it. This is not a socialist issue, this is a human issue as it affects all of us. WTF do you propose? Or is addressing actual issues with solutions socialist according to you? Grow TFU!

Is this the opinion of a Democrat or a Socialist? Please describe the differences in how Democrats propose to address this problem, versus how Socialists propose to address this problem.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by kjsimons, posted 10-31-2021 9:39 PM kjsimons has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by nwr, posted 11-01-2021 3:09 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1254
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 48 of 79 (889070)
11-01-2021 5:32 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by xongsmith
11-01-2021 2:43 AM


Re: the Marc9000 bot squawks
Marc, do yourself and all of us a favor and get the fuck out of here.

I guess I'll consider that, since no one can show any difference whatsoever in the politics of today's Democrats versus today's Socialists. But I'd be more likely to leave if the administrator would stop violating forum rule #10 by bringing up my name and passing it around weeks after I've last posted.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by xongsmith, posted 11-01-2021 2:43 AM xongsmith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by ringo, posted 11-01-2021 11:46 AM marc9000 has not yet responded
 Message 52 by AZPaul3, posted 11-01-2021 3:09 PM marc9000 has responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2018
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 49 of 79 (889071)
11-01-2021 10:06 AM


Perhaps the 2 debating sides could examine a single issue - one at a time
Take the time to look at details, which would include:

Different proposals.

What level of support each proposal has

Costs (per year, per decade)

Regulations (How widespread will the regulations be)

(Take one issue at a time)


  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19302
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


(2)
Message 50 of 79 (889074)
11-01-2021 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by marc9000
11-01-2021 5:32 AM


Re: the Marc9000 bot squawks
marc9000 writes:

... no one can show any difference whatsoever in the politics of today's Democrats versus today's Socialists.


Well, nobody can show any difference that YOU can understand. You seem to be in over your head. Maybe you should stick to cat videos.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by marc9000, posted 11-01-2021 5:32 AM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20410
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 51 of 79 (889076)
11-01-2021 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by marc9000
10-31-2021 8:12 PM


Re: What does the evidence show?
marc9000 writes:

...I promise I'll be gone from this forum forever...

That's not the sentiment I was expressing and not the way I feel. I mentioned your name in a list of people (Phat, LamarkNewAge, Michael MD, Christian7 and you) who judge ideas based on whether they find them appealing and not on whether they're rooted in fact.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by marc9000, posted 10-31-2021 8:12 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by marc9000, posted 11-01-2021 8:39 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6083
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


(2)
Message 52 of 79 (889078)
11-01-2021 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by marc9000
11-01-2021 5:32 AM


Re: the Marc9000 bot squawks
I guess I'll consider that, since no one can show any difference whatsoever in the politics of today's Democrats versus today's Socialists.

Oh you silly fascist. Everyone interested in the actual answer can find plenty of stuff on the differences and these differences are not major violent contentions to any but the alt-right loony, like you.

The issue here is your ongoing fascist desire to throw acid on society by making such false claims, spreading your poison wrapped in the big lie.

In this discussion, as in most of your discussions here, your obvious lies are couched in emotionally caustic terms. You are throwing emotional bombs with your lies and they are directed to discredit humanity thus, I would suppose, manufacturing a need for us to be saved by a fascist theocracy.

We see the American-hating monster in you dealing out alt-right dirt, lies and pain. We reject you.

Go back to your masters and tell them it didn’t work this time, either.

And do please come back when your handlers have a fresh batch of BS for you to spew around or when Percy looks in the side-view mirror and recites your name three times.

Edited by AZPaul3, : cuz I'm an ass


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by marc9000, posted 11-01-2021 5:32 AM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by marc9000, posted 11-01-2021 9:23 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5833
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 6.0


(2)
Message 53 of 79 (889079)
11-01-2021 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by marc9000
11-01-2021 5:27 AM


Re: What does the evidence show?
Please describe the differences in how Democrats propose to address this problem, versus how Socialists propose to address this problem.

I don't know any actual socialists.

The natural response of an actual socialist would probably be:

  • nationalize the coal industry;
  • nationalize the oil industry;
  • nationalize the natural gas industry;
  • nationalize the electric utilities;
  • nationalize the automotive industry.
I do not see any Democrats proposing such drastic steps.

You haven't a clue about the meaning of "socialism". You apparently do not even understand the definitions that you posted.


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by marc9000, posted 11-01-2021 5:27 AM marc9000 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Percy, posted 11-01-2021 5:58 PM nwr has acknowledged this reply

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20410
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


(4)
Message 54 of 79 (889080)
11-01-2021 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by nwr
11-01-2021 3:09 PM


Re: What does the evidence show?
True socialists might also consider nationalizing transportation, telecommunications, higher education, the banking industry, and the equity markets.

I don't understand how Marc can quote accurate definitions of socialism (Message 31) and still not get it. His own definitions clearly describe how socialism advocates government ownership of the means of production and so forth, but he somehow believes that describes Democrats. The argument is so daft that he can only be a troll, though of the "sincerely believes what he says" variety, if there is such a thing.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by nwr, posted 11-01-2021 3:09 PM nwr has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by marc9000, posted 11-01-2021 10:16 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1254
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 55 of 79 (889083)
11-01-2021 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Percy
11-01-2021 2:46 PM


Re: What does the evidence show?
That's not the sentiment I was expressing and not the way I feel. I mentioned your name in a list of people (Phat, LamarkNewAge, Michael MD, Christian7 and you) who judge ideas based on whether they find them appealing and not on whether they're rooted in fact.

And then in the very same paragraph, you called "Democratic advocacy of socialism", "made up stuff", for the exact same reason that you were putting the five of us down for, your laughable attempt to separate today's Democrat idealism from socialism. You find that separation appealing, even though it's not rooted in fact. I've come to the conclusion that the reason you try to make that claim is because you know that socialism is inspired by the Marxist ideology of using it to incrementally transition a society of free people to communism. and you genuinely believe that the U.S. is capable of having just enough big government to become a social utopia, like some people fantasize that the Scandinavian countries, or some of Europe, or Germany have. And once the U.S. government takes the guns, imposes feel-good mandates to re-cool the planet and put an end to storms, controls the energy industry, that it will only get to a certain point and then STOP SHORT of pure communism. Wouldn't it make sense for Biden (Democrat) or Sanders (socialist) and most other Democrats to say, as one example; "just give us the 30 x 30 land confiscation proposal this one time, then we'll pass a brand new constitutional amendment that prohibits the government from ever again doing anymore land confiscation proposals, ever. But they never do that, do they? For ANY new increases in government that they propose.

In Bernie Sanders' younger years when he was just getting started in politics with mayoral and congressional runs, he ran as an independent because the Democrat party wasn't quite socialist enough for him. The party has now COME TO HIM, evidenced by lots of things. His run for president in 2016 was done as a Democrat. Small Democrat infested districts have recently elected "The Squad" (Tlaib, AOC, Omar, Pressley) They're described as very left leaning / progressive. Sanders is described as "socialist". He's been known to meet with them, to brainstorm with them.

https://www.newsmax.com/...he-squad-aoc/2020/11/02/id/994866

But you'll maintain that there's NO SIMILARITY in their views, right? And I've not shown any, anywhere in this thread, and I can't show it. And you maintain that view because you find it appealing, not because of anything I've shown, right?

Schumer and Biden have been Democrat politicians for many decades. They've both obviously swerved much more left only fairly recently, Schumer's constituents and Biden's handlers (whoever they are) have largely inspired it. There is a point where this new breed of FAR left Democrats and socialists come perfectly together. We're seeing its beginning stages now, not because I find it appealing (I don't) we see it because it's a fact.

Why do you suppose that so many posters here fly into an emotional rage at the stuff I post? You've said you sometimes watch 'Fox News Sunday', I get the impression that you might even glance at a little more of Fox's programing. Surely you've seen them interview Republican congressmen and senators, you know how close national elections almost always are throughout the country, you know that my views represent a huge percentage of U.S. voters. Do these people want to seal themselves in their tiny liberal, socialist cocoon and not care about what's actually going on? It makes no sense to me, this is a discussion forum. Do they really hate free speech that much?

As you know, I've shown the closeness of today's Democrats and socialism in this thread, and asked simple, basic questions about it, asking any of the gang to show disagreements and separations in Democrat beliefs and socialist beliefs. No one has come up with ANY direct answers to my questions, only generalizations that they see no relationship between them, with no specifics. Then in Message 50, I'm told that I'm "in over my head". Are you proud to have these people as your allies? They take note of their own failures, then turn right around and accuse me of them, with no detail of course. And they're not embarrassed because they're part of a gang, and their harmonious put downs and vulgar name calling of me make them feel good about themselves. Many conservatives would fall off their chairs laughing, but that's not my intent, I'm just interested in common sense and what is actually rooted in fact.

Here's my so-far unanswered question, again;

quote:
Could you, or all the gang, show me just one thing in Sanders' 12 point list that today's Democrats are united in opposing? Just one? That wouldn't be near enough to differentiate between today's Democrats and socialism, but it would be a start. It would actually take 5 or 6 at least. But just one will cause me to disengage for now,

You could be a hero to the gang! Just one, that would get me out of here for awhile. Work on it, work on it! Or just ban me, I suspect you're getting PM's requesting that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Percy, posted 11-01-2021 2:46 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by AZPaul3, posted 11-01-2021 8:58 PM marc9000 has not yet responded
 Message 58 by nwr, posted 11-01-2021 9:35 PM marc9000 has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6083
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


(3)
Message 56 of 79 (889084)
11-01-2021 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by marc9000
11-01-2021 8:39 PM


Re: What does the evidence show?
Or just ban me, I suspect you're getting PM's requesting that.

You're really not that important.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by marc9000, posted 11-01-2021 8:39 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1254
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 57 of 79 (889086)
11-01-2021 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by AZPaul3
11-01-2021 3:09 PM


Re: the Marc9000 bot squawks
Oh you silly fascist.

quote:
Fascism; : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control


Definition of FASCISM

quote:
fascist
If you know someone who's a fascist, that person is probably into control. A fascist is a follower of a political philosophy characterized by authoritarian views and a strong central government — and no tolerance for opposing opinions.

Fascist traces to the Italian word fascio, meaning "group, bundle." Under fascist rule, the emphasis is on the group — the nation — with few individual rights.


I could provide more definitions, but they're all pretty much the same. One authority, ONE dictatorial leader, no checks and balances. No congress. Few individual rights. No tolerance for opposing opinions. Republicans have never been near any of that. Republicans have always been about individual rights, not about organized "emphasis on the group". Today's Democrats are actually much closer to fascism than are Republicans. (emphasis on the nation - climate change? No tolerance for opposing opinions - Democrats / socialists on EvC forum responding to marc9000?

There is a leaderless, rag tag gang of America haters called "antifa" who hate Republicans, and who try to assign the term fascism to the "far right" Republicans. They do it to try to do what homosexuals did to the word "gay", take a certain word with a certain narrowly defined meaning, and get dictionary wordsmiths to change it to suit them. It hasn't worked at all so far. The problem they have is that Democrats / socialists need to keep pretending that they have respect for the U.S. Constitution and its framers. If they're able to twist the term "fascism" to become a properly defined way to name-call Republicans, then the term would also have to be assigned to the U.S. framers. That would mess up their fake respect they have for the framers.

So keep being stupid and call Republicans fascists at this forum, it will work great for you here. But it might not work well for you anywhere else. The antifa group is nothing, never making the news unless they break the law and destroy property, as they sometimes do.

Everyone interested in the actual answer can find plenty of stuff on the differences and these differences are not major violent contentions

Oh they're differences, but not major differences, so you and no one else here will bother to name them. Maybe because you're afraid that I'll show them to not be differences at all? Name a few and let's find out.

In this discussion, as in most of your discussions here, your obvious lies are couched in emotionally caustic terms. You are throwing emotional bombs with your lies and they are directed to discredit humanity thus, I would suppose, manufacturing a need for us to be saved by a fascist theocracy.

Do you know what the term "theocracy" means?

quote:
Definition of theocracy
1: government of a state by immediate divine guidance or by officials who are regarded as divinely guided

2: a state governed by a theocracy


Definition of THEOCRACY

This is what you see me promote? What conservative Republicans promote? I think you build 100' tall straw men.

And do please come back when your handlers have a fresh batch of BS for you to spew around or when Percy looks in the side-view mirror and recites your name three times.

PM Percy to ban me. That should help satisfy your hatred of the 1st amendment. By the way, I wish to thank you at this time for your UNWAVERING support of your Arizona senator Kyrsten Sinema. She's one of the very few Democrats who is not quite a socialist.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by AZPaul3, posted 11-01-2021 3:09 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by AZPaul3, posted 11-02-2021 6:35 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5833
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 6.0


(3)
Message 58 of 79 (889087)
11-01-2021 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by marc9000
11-01-2021 8:39 PM


Re: What does the evidence show?
And then in the very same paragraph, you called "Democratic advocacy of socialism", "made up stuff", for the exact same reason that you were putting the five of us down for, your laughable attempt to separate today's Democrat idealism from socialism.

It is made up stuff.

Most Democrats support capitalism. No, the do not want free market capitalism. They want a reasonably sane capitalism with modest sensible regulation. They are not socialist. You have been lied to, and you are gullible enough to fall for those lies.

As you know, I've shown the closeness of today's Democrats and socialism in this thread, and asked simple, basic questions about it, asking any of the gang to show disagreements and separations in Democrat beliefs and socialist beliefs.

What you have actually shown, is that you do not understand what the Democrats believe, and that you are hopelessly confused about "socialism".

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by marc9000, posted 11-01-2021 8:39 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by marc9000, posted 11-01-2021 10:27 PM nwr has acknowledged this reply

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1254
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


(1)
Message 59 of 79 (889088)
11-01-2021 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Percy
11-01-2021 5:58 PM


Re: What does the evidence show?
True socialists might also consider nationalizing transportation, telecommunications, higher education, the banking industry, and the equity markets.

I don't understand how Marc can quote accurate definitions of socialism (Message 31) and still not get it. His own definitions clearly describe how socialism advocates government ownership of the means of production and so forth, but he somehow believes that describes Democrats.

I can easily help you to understand it, you seem to be drawing a huge distinction between ownership and control. When it comes to government, there can be practically no difference. Today's U.S. government doesn't "own" GM, Ford, or Chrysler, but it largely controls them. It dictates to them what fuel mileages will be, what pollution equipment their vehicles will have, what safety equipment their vehicles will have. I and millions of others in the U.S., refuse to buy a new car, because we can't get what we want like we could in the 60's or 70's. It wouldn't be much different if the government completely owned the car companies. Considering the government (taxpayers) have already been involved in baling them out of financial trouble, the government probably owns them more than we know right now.

The argument is so daft that he can only be a troll, though of the "sincerely believes what he says" variety, if there is such a thing.

*sigh* Where did you get the idea to call me a troll, because one of these wizard helpers of yours already did? I'm a troll because my politics are different from those of practically all other posters here? And you'd really prefer that all views posted here were from the exact same worldview? Let's look at the definition:

quote:
In internet slang, a troll is a person who posts inflammatory, insincere, digressive,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as social media (Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc.), a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog), with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses,[2] or manipulating others' perception. This is typically for the troll's amusement, or to achieve a specific result such as disrupting a rival's online activities or manipulating a political process. Even so, Internet trolling can also be defined as purposefully causing confusion or harm to other users online, for no reason at all.[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

My posts are inflammatory ONLY because most everyone here has no tolerance for opinions other than their own. It is they who make them inflammatory, not me. "No reason at all" never applies to me, my reason is an interest in things that are rooted in facts. Please check out the following messages again, compare them to the above terms in the definition, like "inflammatory", "provoking" the "troll's amusement" "disrupting a rival's activities" "causing confusion or harm" "no reason at all".

Message 38
Message 41
Message 46
Message 50
Message 52

These haters posts are very short, have no substance relating to the topic, took about a half minute for them to bang out, and some call me vulgar names. As you can hopefully see, my posts are filled with substance, usually relating to the topic unless a hater draws me away from it, often take me well over an hour to word-process up, I provide links when appropriate, and seldom directly insult anyone personally, and never name call. I think mine are in better keeping with forum rules than the above referenced ones from my haters. Considering the overall meaning of the term "troll", and your years of experience in forum administrating, who are the bigger trolls, me or my haters?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Percy, posted 11-01-2021 5:58 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1254
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 60 of 79 (889089)
11-01-2021 10:27 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by nwr
11-01-2021 9:35 PM


Re: What does the evidence show?
They want a reasonably sane capitalism with modest sensible regulation. They are not socialist.

That can be said about Bernie Sanders' proposals. Plenty of Democrats do, including Bernie. He's a socialist.

You have been lied to, and you are gullible enough to fall for those lies.

Who lied to me? I can figure things out for myself, I don't need a source to tell me what to think. I don't trust the government. Neither did most all of the U.S. founders.

What you have actually shown, is that you do not understand what the Democrats believe, and that you are hopelessly confused about "socialism".

I easily understand what Democrats believe - I get my news from multiple sources. I see illegals pouring over the southern border, I see Trump hate - I see the opposition to what Trump believes, and I know what Trump believes.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by nwr, posted 11-01-2021 9:35 PM nwr has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by AZPaul3, posted 11-02-2021 12:28 PM marc9000 has not yet responded
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