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Author Topic:   CATO Institute had a big IMMIGRATION AND NATIONAL IDENTITY survey, April 27, 2021
Percy
Member
Posts: 20745
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(4)
Message 3 of 137 (888119)
09-04-2021 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by LamarkNewAge
09-03-2021 11:19 PM


Rephrasing:

LamarkNewAge writes:

Do you think of yourself more as a citizen of the world or of your nation?

It's a complicated equation that defies solution on many issues, but everyone should want what is best for the most people, regardless of nationality.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-03-2021 11:19 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-05-2021 11:21 PM Percy has seen this message

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20745
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 10 of 137 (888166)
09-08-2021 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by LamarkNewAge
09-06-2021 10:52 PM


Re: The INVERSE RELATIONSHIP rule among public immigration level support.
LamarkNewAge writes:

The public will agree to support much higher immigration levels IF immigrants can prove they will not use social support programs.
...
<and all the rest of the malarkey>

Do you really want to make your prejudices and ignorance this self-evident?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-06-2021 10:52 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-08-2021 2:35 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20745
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 11 of 137 (888167)
09-08-2021 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by LamarkNewAge
09-08-2021 9:19 AM


Re: The INVERSE RELATIONSHIP rule among public immigration level support.
I await with interest to see if dwise1 will figure out a way to respond to someone who apparently understood almost nothing he said.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-08-2021 9:19 AM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-08-2021 2:38 PM Percy has seen this message

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20745
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 28 of 137 (888190)
09-09-2021 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by LamarkNewAge
09-08-2021 2:35 PM


Re: The INVERSE RELATIONSHIP rule among public immigration level support.
LamarkNewAge writes:

Percy writes:

Do you really want to make your prejudices and ignorance this self-evident?

Did you go to the polling page I sent you to?

The views you expressed are prejudiced and ignorant. Polling showing the views to be widespread can't change that.

A hundred and sixty years ago polls would have shown the vast majority of the country, both North and South, to be prejudiced against blacks. That wouldn't have made racism okay, just widespread.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-08-2021 2:35 PM LamarkNewAge has taken no action

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20745
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 29 of 137 (888191)
09-09-2021 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by LamarkNewAge
09-08-2021 5:47 PM


Re: The INVERSE RELATIONSHIP rule among public immigration level support.
You're in effect saying, "I'm not bigoted or ignorant - I only feel this way out of pragmatism." Obviously you're convincing no one, especially by arguing for punitive policies like benefit moratoriums and extra taxes.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-08-2021 5:47 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-09-2021 8:22 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20745
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 46 of 137 (888221)
09-10-2021 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by LamarkNewAge
09-09-2021 8:22 PM


Re: The INVERSE RELATIONSHIP rule among public immigration level support.
LamarkNewAge writes:

Show where I called for benefit moratoriums.

Label it however you like, that's the net effect. You're in favor of benefits for immigrants but only if they pay for them themselves through special taxes that only they themselves pay. If you bill someone for their benefits then they're not benefits. In effect it's a moratorium on benefits for as long as you're taxing them for them.

You have been screaming for years about the "problem" of illegal immigration. And the immigrants were clearly, in and of themselves, the problem, to you.

You're confusing me with someone else, I have no idea who.

(You seem to be happy with 1 million per year immigration levels.)

Uh, no. I have no idea where you're getting this.

The poll question you cited in Message 26 is poorly phrased because it isn't possible to interpret the responses:

Would you favor or oppose increasing immigration to the U.S. if immigrants had to prove before entering that they would not use government welfare services?

If asked this question I would have to pass. It wouldn't be possible to register my objection to making potential immigrants prove whether they'd need government services in just a yes or no response. I'm in favor of increased immigration, and I'm against raising additional barriers to immigration.

The problem I'm having with your position is that you're using the excuse of a particular poll to justify advocacy of anti-immigrant policies.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-09-2021 8:22 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-10-2021 10:07 AM Percy has seen this message

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20745
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 50 of 137 (888225)
09-10-2021 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by LamarkNewAge
09-09-2021 8:50 PM


Re: Percy's support for border walls documented.
Wow, blatantly obvious dishonesty. A big tip-of-the-hat to PaulK in Message 32 for calling it out and providing accurate information.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-09-2021 8:50 PM LamarkNewAge has taken no action

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20745
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 53 of 137 (888228)
09-10-2021 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by LamarkNewAge
09-10-2021 8:58 AM


Re: Percy's support for border walls documented.
LamarkNewAge writes:

Percy said there was a "need" for walls wherever a "natural barrier" (like a river) was not present.

I wrote about walls a lot. A dishonest person willing to cherry pick quotes, as you apparently are, can make anyone seem to say anything.

My actual position on walls is that I have a preference for technology but in places where it's determined that we need walls then we should build walls. The Trump position that I argued against was, "If it's a border then it needs a wall." Trump even initiated efforts to build walls along the Rio Grande, which is already a security barrier. Maybe Jar knows the status of Trump's border wall efforts along the river, which were pretty draconian, for example:

  • Taking private property along the river by eminent domain to build the wall
  • Leaving entire neighborhoods on the far side of the wall
  • Ignoring all environmental considerations

Tell the truth, you'll feel better.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-10-2021 8:58 AM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-10-2021 10:52 AM Percy has seen this message
 Message 56 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-10-2021 11:06 AM Percy has replied
 Message 61 by jar, posted 09-10-2021 12:07 PM Percy has seen this message

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20745
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 70 of 137 (888249)
09-10-2021 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by LamarkNewAge
09-10-2021 11:06 AM


Re: Percy's support for border walls documented.
LamarkNewAge writes:

Do you deny that you said that border lands west of the Rio Grande need a wall?

Do you deny that you felt that any border land, in Texas, will need either the river or a wall?

What I think no one would argue with is that you have a great deal of difficultly correctly interpreting what you read.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-10-2021 11:06 AM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-10-2021 3:02 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20745
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 78 of 137 (888258)
09-10-2021 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by LamarkNewAge
09-10-2021 3:02 PM


Re: Percy's support for border walls documented.
I think you're one of those people for whom more information just increases the confusion.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-10-2021 3:02 PM LamarkNewAge has taken no action

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20745
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 106 of 137 (888292)
09-11-2021 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by PaulK
09-11-2021 3:22 AM


Re: The Trump Presidency thread is being discussed.
I think you're doing an admirable job of responding to LNA, but it's a difficult task. The reason why I don't usually engage with LNA, and why when I do it's not for too long, is that each of his replies contains additional misunderstandings, and the number of misunderstandings quickly grow past the point of possibility of straightening them all out. Compounding the problem is that often even the explanations of what he's misunderstood are themselves misunderstood. And now that he's added purposeful misrepresentation and targeting of individuals to his MO I'm even less interested in engaging with him.

Clarifying my position on walls again, I'm against them. I wish we didn't need any, but in some places we do. I prefer technology-based approaches first and walls second, and in tandem where appropriate. All approaches require a human element.

Is LNA racist? I think once you've said enough that you have to repeatedly declare, "I am not a racist," that you've pretty much proven you're a racist.

We have to be careful how we judge someone a racist, though. I defended Lee in the Post yesterday, calling him a man of his time and place, and got called a racist by multiple people.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : LMA -> LNA, thanks to nwr for noticing.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by nwr, posted 09-11-2021 11:39 AM Percy has seen this message

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20745
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 109 of 137 (888301)
09-11-2021 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by jar
09-11-2021 12:45 PM


And here's the gate you must pass through to reach the ferry. I assume you pull up to the gate and someone comes out of the building in the background to conduct the border check.

AbE: That's an active window, but the way. You can pan around, zoom in/out, change your location, etc.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : AbE.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by jar, posted 09-11-2021 12:45 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by jar, posted 09-11-2021 3:19 PM Percy has seen this message

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20745
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 124 of 137 (888331)
09-13-2021 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by LamarkNewAge
09-12-2021 11:46 PM


Re: I was planning on making a comment about equating immigration policy with race policy
LamarkNewAge writes:

This site has some very repulsive themes that are directed at whoever happens to step in here.

Some treating the ground this site is laid into as if it is a shit pile. Nobody else will want to step in.

If you've found discussion boards where the tenor of discussion is higher and more to your liking then I'm puzzled why you spend any time here at a site you think so little of. And I'm curious what discussion boards you're thinking of. Most on-line discussion today between people of different views quickly descends into insults and anarchy. I recently got this reply at the Washington Post after saying that we should assess Lee's legacy in the context of his time and place:

quote:
We can't fix you. You are stupid and you're racist. A simple point for you Martin Luther King didn't take arms against United States of America! Martin Luther King did not own slaves. And Martin Luther King did not separate families or rape women! I suppose your relatives were Southern but any real man would divorce the lies and hate of their ancestors!

If comments at the Washington Post can take such a sudden downward turn, it can happen anywhere (and does).

About this:

I just noticed somebody again accused me of saying I was not a racist. (The post I was responding to)

You continue having difficulty interpreting what you read. I did not mean you used the exact phrase, "I am not a racist." It was meant only as a reference to your many denials of being a racist.

The post you're responding does say that you claim not to be a racist, but if your tirade about being called a racist is not a denial of being racist then what is it? Because if it's not that then no one has any idea what you're on about.

You should proof your messages at least five times before posting them with an eye toward how much sense they make.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Clarify.

Edited by Percy, : Grammar/typo.

Edited by Percy, : Grammar.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-12-2021 11:46 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-13-2021 4:27 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20745
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 128 of 137 (888336)
09-13-2021 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by LamarkNewAge
09-13-2021 4:27 PM


Re: I was planning on making a comment about equating immigration policy with race policy
Your position is very unclear. Are you still using the results of a poll to justify advocacy of making benefits for immigrants conditional upon they're paying additional taxes for them?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-13-2021 4:27 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-21-2021 12:09 AM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20745
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 131 of 137 (888574)
09-21-2021 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by LamarkNewAge
09-21-2021 12:09 AM


Re: I was planning on making a comment about equating immigration policy with race policy
Why are you rehashing discussions from another thread from a couple years ago? If you've got unfinished business in some other thread then take it to that thread.

LamarkNewAge writes:

I dont think I ever said anything about current immigrants, under our current system, paying a tax for whatever benefits they get.

I didn't say whether you were talking about current or future immigrants. You were talking about future immigrants. This is from your Message 6:

I have been begging for the Democrats and the pro immigration side to get around the immigration-stopper "public charge" issue by having an immigration tax (5% specifically) to be applied on all future immigrants.

Do you still feel that way?

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Typo.

Edited by Percy, : Fix wording.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-21-2021 12:09 AM LamarkNewAge has taken no action

  
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