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Author Topic:   CATO Institute had a big IMMIGRATION AND NATIONAL IDENTITY survey, April 27, 2021
Posts: 5115
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.7

Message 7 of 137 (888160)
09-07-2021 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by LamarkNewAge
09-06-2021 10:52 PM

Re: The INVERSE RELATIONSHIP rule among public immigration level support.
The public will agree to support much higher immigration levels IF immigrants can prove they will not use social support programs.

OK, so just exactly what social support programs do they use?

Getting medical care through hospital ERs? Thanks to our fouled up health care system in which most citizens cannot afford health care, that's what many citizens have to rely on.

Can you think of anything else? I cannot.

So do immigrants pay any taxes? We went over this before regarding undocumented (AKA "illegal") aliens. They do pay taxes without qualifying for benefits. By paying rent, they are indirectly paying their landlords' property taxes. By buying stuff, they are directly paying sales taxes and if they are driving then they are paying gasoline taxes (AKA "consumption taxes"). One dodge (used even by Trump businesses in their human trafficking practices) is to get fake Social Security numbers, so in those cases they are paying into payroll taxes (Social Security and Medicare) which they can never collect on (nor can legal aliens with valid work visas) as well as having income tax withholding taken out which they can never try to recover by filing a tax return.

I have been begging for the Democrats and the pro immigration side to get around the immigration-stopper "public charge" issue by having an immigration tax (5% specifically) to be applied on all future immigrants.

Why? They are already paying all kinds of taxes as it is! Plus the administration of your proposed extra tax would not work for undocumented immigrants.

What we need to do is to analyze and point out how much all immigrants are already paying into the system through taxes. As well as showing how immigrants provide the basic labor that our economy absolutely depends on. The A-TEAM (1964) definitively demonstrated that there are indeed jobs that citizens refuse to do but hard-working immigrants (is there any other kind?) will gladly do.

So what we actually need to do is to inform the public of the actual facts about immigration. Not the lies that the xenophobic right-wingnuts keep feeding the public.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-06-2021 10:52 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-08-2021 9:19 AM dwise1 has taken no action

Posts: 5115
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.7

Message 20 of 137 (888176)
09-08-2021 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by LamarkNewAge
09-08-2021 5:47 PM

Re: The INVERSE RELATIONSHIP rule among public immigration level support.
Wow! You go almost immediately into vicious ad hominem attacks based on your inability/refusal to read what we have actually written or a tactic of misrepresenting us whom you have immediately identified/misidentified as opponents. A sure sign that you feel threatened.

You are truly a legend in your own mind.

dwise foes not understand that illegal immigrants are not the issue.

Nor did I say that they were! I was referring to a past discussion which did concentrate on the false anti-immigration argument that illegal immigrants were draining the economy through received benefits (¿what benefits?) without paying back into the system (eg, "without paying any taxes").

That example demonstrates how false such claims are. And there's no difference between illegal immigrants and legal immigrants that I can see except that legal immigrants/visa carrying foreign workers are not driven into the dark economy, plus they will be issued valid tax ID numbers and so can file income tax returns and get a refund, which illegal immigrants with fake SSNs cannot do. On top of that, legal foreign workers also pay payroll taxes (FICA: Social Security and Medicare) which they will never qualify to draw from.

And OBTW, most of the complaining that I've seen from the anti-immigration side's claims of illegal immigrants (the primary population that they oppose) not paying taxes concentrate on income taxes. If those workers were to file income taxes, being low-income would place them in the lower 50% (income < $43,600) which The Wrong's (AKA "the Right") own propaganda identifies as being 12% of total income and 3% of income tax revenue. And if we were to break down that lower 50% into further income sub-ranges, we would undoubtedly find income tax loss from the poorest of workers (in which illegal immigrants would be fall) to be less than 1% of income tax revenue.

But income taxes are not the only taxes. For example, even renters pay property taxes, albeit indirectly through their rents (so attempts to classify 2nd generation immigrants (some of whom are citizens by birth) as leeching off of society because of public schools are no different from the children of "non-immigrant" families who also pay property taxes indirectly through their rents). But what really hits the poor percentage-wise (same metric as progressive income tax rates) are consumption taxes which include sales tax, gasoline tax, etc. Almost every single dollar earned by the poor must be spent just to provide the basic survival needs (whereas only a small portion of the riches' incomes must be so spent), so the greatest burden on income by percentage is born by the poor.

From your Message 14

The real issue is American voter perception though.


So many of them are being fed gross disinformation (plus some dezinformatsia). That is why I am arguing to dispel that disinformation.


I am in favor of an immigration tax (1st gen Americans starting sometime in the future).

What the hell is that supposed to be about? What possible purpose is it supposed to serve? What possible problem is it supposed to address?

And just how the F**K are you supposed to be able to impose and administer such a tax? Especially if your intended targets are the illegal immigrants who are, by their very nature, very difficult to track down and collect from. As the Germans taught me decades ago, "Hier geht nichts ohne Papier." ("Here, nothing works without paper.")

So then just what the F**K are you talking about?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-08-2021 5:47 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-08-2021 9:27 PM dwise1 has taken no action
 Message 22 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-08-2021 9:40 PM dwise1 has taken no action

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