Testing The Financial Apologists

It's amazing how Phat can continue to post grammatically comprehensible sentences in the absence of any coherent thought. We keep seeing this kind of thing displayed here from a variety of contributors where the sentences are all properly formulated with nouns and verbs and objects and so forth, but when the whole is considered it's just a tossed word salad. Candle2, Dredge, LamarkNewAge, marc9000, they all do it.--Percy

Yes, it is getting really difficult to parse his actual arguments. many of the things he says, and claims are factually and demonstrably wrong, but he never addresses that when it is pointed out to him.After 20 years Phat still cannot grasp the concept that expertise has value. We don't know what we don't know. In order to learn and actually function we have to actually acknowledge that we don't know what we don't know.

That is certainly interesting. I wasn't aware that certain states allow gold and silver as legal tender. Still, it's going to be a lot of hassle to pay for your groceries with gold. You prefer taxing fewer things more heavily? Why? In a previous post you complained about certain investors violating government regulations. It seems that you do prefer government in certain situations, and you should. Capitalism without government regulation would be horrible. Opinion noted.

Why was it inane? Do you know why FDR took that action? Do you know and understand the Federal Reserve Act passed back in 1913 and that that was an Act of Congress and signed into Law by Wilson? Do you know that in 1933 the US was still in a major depression? Do you know that the items (gold and silver) were paid for at the then going rate and not 'confiscated'? Do you know that a small amount of gold and silver was allowed continued to be owned by individuals?

The value of chicken breasts is determined by the market. Are chicken breasts money? They why don't you have a beef with conservatives who do the very same thing?None of us wants an unregulated economy or currency. That would be an absolutely horrid situtation. What's wrong with a capital gains tax? Why shouldn't it be treated the same as income?

So investors are not experts? Do you think they steal their money from the "common good" kettle which many of you advocate? I happen to respect a guy who was a self made millionaire, but we can leave my investor apologists out of this.Why not let me quote an expert: Alan GreenspanSome notable Greenspan quotes:

AZQuote:

---

(Alan Greenspans purported utterances)

​

The number one problem in today's generation and economy is the lack of financial literacy.

​

The abandonment of the gold standard made it possible for the welfare statists to use the banking system as a means to an unlimited expansion of credit. In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation. There is no safe store of value. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the hidden confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold standard.

​

We can guarantee cash benefits as far out and at whatever size you like, but we cannot guarantee their purchasing power. (Tany should understand that Gold *could*
back the money if its value were higher. And whats to stop gold from reaching $5,000.00 or even $10,000.00 an ounce?In addition, the government can guarantee social payments for everything and everyone in perpetuity but they cannot guarantee the value of that money.)

Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the 'hidden' confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights.

​

Amateurs want to be right. Professionals want to make money.

​

My favorite quote:

Remember what we're looking at. Gold is a currency. It is still, by all evidence, a premier currency, that no fiat currency, including the dollar, can match.

---

Do you respect Greenspan as an *expert*?

we got rid of the penny up here a while ago. The only cash payment I make is to my barber so I haven't really noticed the change.

We can ask the economists.

quote:

---

According to a survey of 39 economists, the vast majority (93 percent) agreed that a return to the gold standard would not improve price-stability and employment outcomes,[11] and two-thirds of economic historians reject the idea that the gold standard "was effective in stabilizing prices and moderating business-cycle fluctuations during the nineteenth century."[12] The consensus view among economists is that the gold standard helped prolong and deepen the Great Depression.[13][14] Historically, banking crises were more common during periods under the gold standard while currency crises were less common.[2] According to economist Michael D. Bordo, the gold standard has three benefits that made its use popular during certain historical periods: "its record as a stable nominal anchor; its automaticity; and its role as a credible commitment mechanism."[15] The gold standard is supported by many followers of the Austrian School, free-market libertarians, and some supply-siders.[16]
Gold standard - Wikipedia

---

There are pros and cons to a gold standard, and most economists think there are more cons. However, that ship has sailed. There isn't enough gold in the world to put the US dollar on a gold standard. Not even close.

You didn't quote what Theodoric said, so I included it above to make clear how badly you misunderstood him. His comments were about you and how unaware you are of what you don't know. You're clueless but go merrily along ignoring the accurate information people supply while repeating your baseless opinions ad infinitum.--Percy

Are you capable of reading things in context?What Alan Greenspan has said is irrelevant to this conversation.
Are you aware that he is not well revered in economic circles? His adoration of Ayn Rand was a huge issue. Greenspan span was much more a conservative hack than an economist. He helped Reagan destroy the middle class.The New Republic

Fuck Greenspan and everyone who listens to him!

His economic ideas were soaked with Libertarian ideology. No, I didn't respect him.

Hopefully debate here is of a higher quality than "my expert is better than your expert." This is the fallacy of argument from authority.It would be much better if you included evidence and argument in your posts (not lengthy cut-n-pastes of something someone else said and that you don't understand), thereby letting people see that you understand what you're talking about and are not just playing eeny-meeny-miny-moe with experts.Greenspan was a longtime advocate of the gold standard, but he recognized that he had to work within the structure of the prevailing financial system and didn't talk about it much during his tenure as Federal Reserve Chairman. He's been criticized for promoting monetary policies that caused excessive inflation and a weak dollar, but not for trying to influence a return to the gold standard.A return to the gold standard is impossible today for the same reasons it was abandoned in 1971: there's not enough gold in the world to support all the modern economies. A Google search says that world gold reserves are 59,000 metric tons or about $4.6 trillion. There's about $8 trillion of currency from all countries in circulation. How do you propose returning to the gold standard when there's already not enough gold to do that? And even if we found enough additional gold to accomplish this, how would you continue adding to global gold reserves at a rate equal to or greater than world economic growth. That was the problem faced in 1971.--Percy

The amount of gold available world wide problem has been known for over a half century. The solution has been known now for over a half century. There are still people so disconnected from reality that they are unaware of those two facts for over a half century now.

Do you question the notion that every fiat currency will eventually devalue all the way to virtually zero?
Are you still so clueless as to believe that the dollaar determines the value of gold rather than the inverse?Are you an advocate of modern monetary theory or are you more discriminating regarding finance?Is inflation a problem for fixed assets such as Social Security and disability payments?