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Author Topic:   Testing The Financial Apologists
Phat
Member
Posts: 18633
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 4.4


(1)
Message 646 of 684 (919291)
07-06-2024 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 643 by Percy
07-06-2024 9:41 AM


Re: Alan Greenspan: An Expert Who Makes Sense.
Did it evr occur to you that part of the reason for the disconnect is because the currencies themselves are devalued and inflated?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 643 by Percy, posted 07-06-2024 9:41 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 647 by Theodoric, posted 07-06-2024 4:37 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 654 by Percy, posted 07-07-2024 11:42 AM Phat has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9489
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 6.4


Message 647 of 684 (919294)
07-06-2024 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 646 by Phat
07-06-2024 3:46 PM


Re: Alan Greenspan: An Expert Who Makes Sense.
Has it ever occurred to you to provide an actual argument and evidence instead of ranting and raving?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 646 by Phat, posted 07-06-2024 3:46 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17907
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 7.2


(1)
Message 648 of 684 (919297)
07-06-2024 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 642 by nwr
07-05-2024 10:48 PM


Re: Alan Greenspan: An Expert Who Makes Sense.
quote:
His economic ideas were soaked with Libertarian ideology. No, I didn't respect him.
Objectivist ideology which is similar but not quite the same.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 642 by nwr, posted 07-05-2024 10:48 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 656 by Theodoric, posted 07-08-2024 8:52 AM PaulK has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4597
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 10.0


(1)
Message 649 of 684 (919298)
07-06-2024 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 645 by Phat
07-06-2024 3:44 PM


Re: Alan Greenspan: An Expert Who Makes Sense.
Phat writes in Message 645:
Do you question the notion that every fiat currency will eventually devalue all the way to virtually zero?
Can you explain why that has not happened already?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
If you are going to argue that evolution is false because it resembles your own beliefs then perhaps you should rethink your argument. - - Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 645 by Phat, posted 07-06-2024 3:44 PM Phat has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34140
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 650 of 684 (919304)
07-06-2024 7:25 PM
Reply to: Message 645 by Phat
07-06-2024 3:44 PM


Re: Alan Greenspan: An Expert Who Makes Sense.
Of course I dispute such utterly juvenile absurdities.
Try thinking, really.
And annual COLAs are indexed to inflation.
Are you really that ignorant of basics?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 645 by Phat, posted 07-06-2024 3:44 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9580
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 7.0


Message 651 of 684 (919306)
07-06-2024 7:52 PM
Reply to: Message 645 by Phat
07-06-2024 3:44 PM


Re: Alan Greenspan: An Expert Who Makes Sense.
Jesus Phat, pack it in, you haven't the faintest clue what you're talking about. Social security a fixed asset? Why are you dicking around with stuff you don't understand? Is it something to do with your gambling?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 645 by Phat, posted 07-06-2024 3:44 PM Phat has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9489
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 6.4


Message 652 of 684 (919308)
07-06-2024 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 645 by Phat
07-06-2024 3:44 PM


Re: Alan Greenspan: An Expert Who Makes Sense.
My oldest son has received social security disability since has been eligible. He gets a cola increase every year. Are you truly this ignorant?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 645 by Phat, posted 07-06-2024 3:44 PM Phat has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8654
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 7.0


(2)
Message 653 of 684 (919320)
07-07-2024 4:22 AM
Reply to: Message 645 by Phat
07-06-2024 3:44 PM


Re: Alan Greenspan: An Expert Who Makes Sense.
Are you still so clueless as to believe that the dollar determines the value of gold rather than the inverse?
So, that means that in actuality, the dollar value of oil determines the value of the dollar. And in this modern world more so than gold. Oil, not gold, is the major portion of the dollar's value. That also means that the dollar value of diamonds also determines the value of the dollar. And the dollar value of land determines the value of the dollar. The dollar value of pork bellies determines the value of the dollar. The dollar value of cannabis determines the value of the dollar.
In this society the value of the dollar is determined by ... everything. It's like the value of the dollar just floats around one transaction to the next with people deciding, moment to moment, deal by deal, how many $$ they want to give for their cannabis, pork bellies, land, diamonds, oil and gold. The one common item in all these is the dollar and people determine its value by the last transaction.
In the old days when currency values were determined by governments and by banks you could fund a society with some shiny trinkets stored in a vault. This modern economic society is too damn big and moves too damn fast for some trinkets in a box to support. This is not the days of your grandfather. This is modern economics where there is often not enough unencumbered gold to hold the value of some single transactions let alone a world's worth of transactions overnight.
We needed a new store of value, one in place of scarce commodities, one flexible enough to expand and contract as the flow of values in this hyped-up monster world economy instantly demands.
No one made this determination. This was not appointed or dictated. Independent people with independent minds made the conscious decision to temporarily store the value of their pending transactions in U$A Dollars. Their reasons are well known and, in the best possible way, were right. You can store your billions in $$$ overnight without having to worry about whether there are enough trinkets available in the box.
The full faith and credit of a global society. What you put in last night is still there today. You can now pay the billions for the energy your society desperately needs. You can't be sure you can do that on a gold economy when there isn't enough gold.

“There’s simply no polite way to tell people they’ve dedicated their lives to an illusion,”
-Daniel Dennett
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 645 by Phat, posted 07-06-2024 3:44 PM Phat has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22929
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 7.2


Message 654 of 684 (919334)
07-07-2024 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 646 by Phat
07-06-2024 3:46 PM


Re: Alan Greenspan: An Expert Who Makes Sense.
How do you make it through the day?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 646 by Phat, posted 07-06-2024 3:46 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 655 by Theodoric, posted 07-07-2024 12:23 PM Percy has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9489
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 6.4


Message 655 of 684 (919336)
07-07-2024 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 654 by Percy
07-07-2024 11:42 AM


Re: Alan Greenspan: An Expert Who Makes Sense.
He is living the dream.
Maybe he should try the Costanza rule.
Rookie » Literally the Best Thing Ever: The George Costanza Method

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 654 by Percy, posted 07-07-2024 11:42 AM Percy has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9489
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 6.4


(2)
Message 656 of 684 (919380)
07-08-2024 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 648 by PaulK
07-06-2024 4:54 PM


Re: Alan Greenspan: An Expert Who Makes Sense.
Ayn Rand, of whom Greenspan was an adoring fan, hated libertarians. She felt it was a bastardization of her philosophical musings. She could not stand the idea of being sullied with mere politics.
Objectivists tend to be people seemingly stuck in their early teens behaviorally and emotionally. Libertarians are similar. Both groups are searching for a political moral philosophy they can use to justify their selfishness and narcissism. That is why conservatives dabble in them.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 648 by PaulK, posted 07-06-2024 4:54 PM PaulK has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22929
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 7.2


Message 657 of 684 (919407)
07-09-2024 11:51 AM


Health Information
From Symptoms of Diabetic Dementia. I've bolded the symptoms that seem to apply in the context of EvC Forum:
  • memory loss that affects daily living and social interactions
  • difficulty completing familiar tasks
  • misplacing things often
  • decreased ability to make judgments based on information
  • sudden changes in personality or demeanor
Diabetic dementia isn't currently a thing, but the possibility has recently begun to draw more research attention.
--Percy

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18633
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 4.4


(1)
Message 658 of 684 (919415)
07-10-2024 8:33 AM
Reply to: Message 644 by jar
07-06-2024 11:19 AM


Reality,Narrative,& Apologetics of all stripes
jar and I have had many discussions over the years, and here we go again.
jar writes:
(edited with Grammarly)
The amount of gold available worldwide problem has been known for over a half-century. The solution has been known now for over a half-century. There are still people so disconnected from reality that they have been unaware of those two facts for over a half-century.
Is that what you meant to say?
Why is it that there is a division between progressives and conservatives? It seems as if each "side" has its narrative(to a degree). No one is suggesting a strict gold standard like there was before 1971, though some say that it would serve to reign in unfunded and unbacked spending. One analyst figured out that for gold to play the role that it played prior to 1971, it would have to be valued at $27,000.00 an ounce.
Part of the division between the Left and the Right is ideological. No one gets to have their own set of facts, though the arguments used in defense of rational minds *progressive ideology* attack another narrative. For the conservative view, lets use Tucker Carlson as an example. Though called a "turd" by many progressives, his journalism cannot be criticized though his overall ideology often is criticized simply for rejecting the narrative of the progressives.
The stakes for this election are quite high, and the pressure is on the progressives to retain control of the White House. Unfortunately, Donald Trump has been selected to be the representative of political conservatism, This election will be as dirty as any of the previous battles which have only widened the political divide in America.
As far as counter-narratives go, I have recently paid attention to the chasm regarding the War in Ukraine and what the situation is (rather than what our narratives suggest that it is). In this regard, I do not believe the progressive narrative.
The same holds true with the role of Gold as a hedge against inflation and economic uncertainty. The fact is that since 1971, globalists have tried to substitute the US Dollar for the role formally held together by gold.
It is my opinion that Gold will prevail. If the fiat basket of currencies needs some sort of backing, I side with the East and its solutions rather than the West and its snowballing debt. One can show me all sorts of facts emphasizing the strength of the dollar in today's world, but they fail (in my opinion) to consider the alternative narrative.
  • The U.S. made a grave error by weaponizing the dollar. We won't win that one in the long run.
    You may well know the "facts" of the last 50 years, but the dominant narrative has changed. As you once said, "The Bill Will Get Paid". T Bills won't save us this time.
  • The wealthy have already abandoned then dollar as backing their positions.
    And you won't be able to get much money out of them through taxation. The middle is stuck with the bill.

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 644 by jar, posted 07-06-2024 11:19 AM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 659 by Percy, posted 07-10-2024 9:14 AM Phat has not replied
     Message 660 by Theodoric, posted 07-10-2024 9:16 AM Phat has not replied
     Message 661 by jar, posted 07-10-2024 10:09 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 662 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-10-2024 12:03 PM Phat has not replied
     Message 663 by Taq, posted 07-10-2024 1:34 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 666 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-11-2024 12:38 PM Phat has replied

      
    Percy
    Member
    Posts: 22929
    From: New Hampshire
    Joined: 12-23-2000
    Member Rating: 7.2


    (1)
    Message 659 of 684 (919417)
    07-10-2024 9:14 AM
    Reply to: Message 658 by Phat
    07-10-2024 8:33 AM


    Re: Reality,Narrative,& Apologetics of all stripes
    The descent continues.
    --Percy

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 658 by Phat, posted 07-10-2024 8:33 AM Phat has not replied

      
    Theodoric
    Member
    Posts: 9489
    From: Northwest, WI, USA
    Joined: 08-15-2005
    Member Rating: 6.4


    Message 660 of 684 (919418)
    07-10-2024 9:16 AM
    Reply to: Message 658 by Phat
    07-10-2024 8:33 AM


    Re: Reality,Narrative,& Apologetics of all stripes
    Just unsourced mutterings of a mad man.
    Hitchens's Razor is all this needs.

    What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

    Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

    "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

    If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 658 by Phat, posted 07-10-2024 8:33 AM Phat has not replied

      
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