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Author Topic:   Religious Liberty Quiz
Phat
Member
Posts: 15709
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 1 of 80 (888981)
10-28-2021 11:26 AM


I stumbled across this quiz and thought I would share it here.
Quiz Website

quote:
(RNS) — The nature and extent of religious liberty in the U.S. has been a contested issue since the middle of the last century and in recent years a particularly neuralgic one. Judicial decisions and legal standards aside, what are your religious liberty druthers? If you haven’t considered the topic in the abstract, this quiz will help you gauge your reaction to some of the religious liberty questions the courts have wrestled with.

Answer each of the statements in the comment section below with (a) for “yes,” (b) for “no,” (c) for “it depends,” and (d) for “not sure.” A subsequent column will analyze the results.

1) Students should have a religious right not to say the Pledge of Allegiance.
2) Service personnel on military bases should be permitted religiously mandated headwear regardless of uniform dress codes.
3) Incarcerated persons should be permitted religiously mandated headwear regardless of prison dress codes.
4) Children should have a religious right to attend school without being vaccinated.
5) Individuals should have the right to proselytize in public spaces regardless of anti-solicitation ordinances.
6) Individuals should have the right to proselytize in semipublic spaces like shopping malls and baseball stadiums.
7) Teacher-led prayer should be permitted in public schools.
8) Student-led prayer should be permitted at public school assemblies.
9) Business owners should have a religious right to refuse service to customers on the basis of gender.
10) Business owners should have a religious right to refuse service to customers on the basis of race.
11) Pharmacists should have a religious right to refuse to sell contraceptive products to customers.
12) Houses of worship should be exempt from zoning regulations.
13) Religious organizations should be exempt from employment anti-discrimination laws.
14) Religious organizations should be exempt from workplace safety regulations.
15) Religious exemptions from vaccination mandates should be allowed under any circumstances.
16) Religious exemptions from vaccination mandates should be allowed if medical exemptions are allowed.
17) Individuals should have a religious right not to work on their holy days.
18) Religious organizations should have the same right to apply for government funding that secular organizations have.
19) Women should have a religious right to obtain an abortion regardless of government restrictions.
20) Indigenous peoples should have a religious right to refuse infrastructure construction on land they deem sacred.
21) Polygamy should be permitted as a religious right.
22) Publicly traded companies should have religious rights.
23) Religious organizations should have the right to refuse to cover contraceptive services in their health insurance plans.
24) For-profit companies should have a religious right to refuse to cover contraceptive services in their health insurance plans.
25) There should be a religious right to practice ritual cannibalism.



"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


Replies to this message:
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 Message 8 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 10-28-2021 2:58 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 16 by PaulK, posted 10-29-2021 12:53 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 19 by AZPaul3, posted 10-30-2021 4:41 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
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jar
Member
Posts: 33496
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 2 of 80 (888982)
10-28-2021 11:38 AM


Of the list there were three items that possibly should be allowed but only under very limited conditions and only ONE that should be allowed without any conditions.

My Website: My Website

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5833
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 6.0


(4)
Message 3 of 80 (888983)
10-28-2021 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
10-28-2021 11:26 AM


It is mostly bullshit.

Take the first of those:

1) Students should have a religious right not to say the Pledge of Allegiance.

Children should have the right to not say pledge. Why bring religion into it? This is a free speech right.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 19302
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 4 of 80 (888984)
10-28-2021 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
10-28-2021 11:26 AM


I started out to answer the items individually but it's a waste of time.

The bulk answer is: You have a right to practice your religion. You do NOT have a right to impinge on anybody else's rights. When I'm at the mall, I have a right not to hear you blathering.

25) There should be a religious right to practice ritual cannibalism.

Somebody may be pulling your leg.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17033
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 5 of 80 (888985)
10-28-2021 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by ringo
10-28-2021 12:13 PM


No, that’s a clever one.

There should be a right to practice symbolic ritual cannibalism- with legal foodstuffs. Not actually eating people. (Even that is a restriction on religious liberty, IIRC).


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kjsimons
Member
Posts: 740
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 7.6


(1)
Message 6 of 80 (888986)
10-28-2021 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by PaulK
10-28-2021 12:22 PM


Well that is Catholicism in a nutshell isn't it? Eating the body of Christ and drinking his blood sound like cannibalism to me.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 4740
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 7 of 80 (888987)
10-28-2021 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by nwr
10-28-2021 11:48 AM


It is mostly bullshit.
Take the first of those:
1) Students should have a religious right not to say the Pledge of Allegiance.

Children should have the right to not say pledge. Why bring religion into it? This is a free speech right.

That has actually come up in real life. There is at least one sect (Jehovah's Witnesses, I think, though I could be mistaken) which teaches against swearing oaths. Since they see saying the Pledge as violating that belief, they successfully sought to have their children excused from class during the Pledge. I recall that having been an issue in the 1940's.

 

ADDENDUM:
Refer to the Wikipedia article on the pledge, Legal challenges:

quote:
Prominent legal challenges were brought in the 1930s and 1940s by Jehovah's Witnesses, a denomination whose beliefs preclude swearing loyalty to any power other than God, and who objected to policies in public schools requiring students to swear an oath to the flag. They said requiring the pledge violated their freedom of religion guaranteed by the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment. The first case was in 1935, when two children, Lillian and William Gobitas, ages ten and twelve, were expelled from the Minersville, Pennsylvania, public schools that year for failing to salute the flag and recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

And from the preceding section, Controversy:

quote:
In 1940, the Supreme Court, in Minersville School District v. Gobitis, ruled that students in public schools, including the respondents in that case—Jehovah's Witnesses who considered the flag salute to be idolatry—could be compelled to swear the Pledge. In 1943, in West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, the Supreme Court reversed its decision. Justice Robert H. Jackson, writing for the 6 to 3 majority, went beyond simply ruling in the precise matter presented by the case to say that public school students are not required to say the Pledge on narrow grounds, and asserted that such ideological dogmata are antithetical to the principles of the country, concluding with:
If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us.

In 2004, the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals held that students are also not required to stand for the Pledge.


That section also mentions other objections, including from atheist parents who view the 1954 addition of "under God" as imposing religion onto the students thus violating church-state separation.


This message is a reply to:
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AnswersInGenitals
Member
Posts: 635
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.8


(2)
Message 8 of 80 (888988)
10-28-2021 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
10-28-2021 11:26 AM


Since so many religious apologists insist that atheism is a form of religion, shouldn’t all these rights accrue to atheists and atheist organizations and even companies that declare themselves to be atheistic (in the literal sense of non-theistic)?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Phat, posted 10-28-2021 11:26 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15709
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 9 of 80 (888989)
10-28-2021 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by kjsimons
10-28-2021 1:29 PM


On The Other Hand
Is it cannibalism if the Creator of all seen and unseen is feeding you (or offering you) what you need? Or are you going to be an independent prodigal and try and figure it all out for yourself?

Symbolism in so many ways. Yes, humans have joked about it, used it for their own nefarious ways. The demons imitate it. (think of all the off color jokes related to "eat me"...) But a day with the Lord is as a thousand years and a day without Him is a dust speck of an orphaned planet spinning off into the cosmos with a bunch of people clinging only to each other having lost their Father.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by kjsimons, posted 10-28-2021 1:29 PM kjsimons has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by jar, posted 10-28-2021 3:31 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
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jar
Member
Posts: 33496
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.1


(1)
Message 10 of 80 (888990)
10-28-2021 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Phat
10-28-2021 3:03 PM


Re: On The Other Hand
Yawn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My Website: My Website

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17033
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 11 of 80 (888991)
10-28-2021 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Phat
10-28-2021 3:03 PM


Re: On The Other Hand
quote:
Is it cannibalism if the Creator of all seen and unseen is feeding you (or offering you) what you need?

If it’s eating human flesh, it’s cannibalism. By definition.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Phat, posted 10-28-2021 3:03 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15709
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 12 of 80 (888992)
10-28-2021 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by ringo
10-28-2021 12:13 PM


Freedom From (or Of) Religion
Somebody may be pulling your leg.
As long as they don't do to my leg what we humans do to chicken drumsticks, we good. Their freedom stops where my leg begins. Jesus has plenty of food in His Temple. He even symbolically suggests that people can and should eat and drink that Temple.

God even sewed us clothes (a symbolic covering) in Genesis.

But lets get back to Phats topic and what ole Phat thinks about these questions, shall we?

quote:
Answer each of the statements in the comment section below with (a) for “yes,” (b) for “no,” (c) for “it depends,” and (d) for “not sure.” A subsequent column will analyze the results.

1) Students should have a religious right not to say the Pledge of Allegiance. I agree that they should have a right, period. Like nwr says.
2) Service personnel on military bases should be permitted religiously mandated headwear regardless of uniform dress codes. Yes, but only during Chapel. Military responsibilities and protocols over ride religious rights.
3) Incarcerated persons should be permitted religiously mandated headwear regardless of prison dress codes. Again, this is under the rules of the state. I would suppose that during times of solitude or worship they can wear what they want...but what if some guy claimed he had a religious right to be nude? See the complexities of this stuff?
4) Children should have a religious right to attend school without being vaccinated. This gets into the issue of whether the state has a social responsibility to protect other kids (yes) and whether the state can override your beliefs (yes to a limited degree when the safety of others is involved.) But the whole secular freedom from religion thing is itself a sub-topic. Can of worms. Hornets' nest.
5) Individuals should have the right to proselytize in public spaces regardless of anti-solicitation ordinances. On public property, yes. But they must not have the right to hate speech. Offending others using Jesus' name is only offending your demons anyway!
6) Individuals should have the right to proselytize in semipublic spaces like shopping malls and baseball stadiums. Yes, but no more than any other vendor hawking hot dogs and beer!
7) Teacher-led prayer should be permitted in public schools. Only if every student gets a note permitting them to listen. And prayer to whom? Odin? BigFoot? Leprechauns??? I don't think so!

8) Student-led prayer should be permitted at public school assemblies. Yes if it is brief and voluntary and that all religions can participate in their own groups. Keyword: Brief.
9) Business owners should have a religious right to refuse service to customers on the basis of gender. Nope. Service can only be refused due to offensive behavior by the customer.
10) Business owners should have a religious right to refuse service to customers on the basis of race. No. Obviously not.
11) Pharmacists should have a religious right to refuse to sell contraceptive products to customers. \[b\]Again, no. Render unto Caesar that which is Caesars, including the right to engage in business.
12) Houses of worship should be exempt from zoning regulations. The question is why?
13) Religious organizations should be exempt from employment anti-discrimination laws. \[b\] No in most circumstances. I cant at the moment think of any exceptions.
14) Religious organizations should be exempt from workplace safety regulations.NO!
15) Religious exemptions from vaccination mandates should be allowed under any circumstances. Vaccinations are a public health issue. People can abstain, but then must wear masks in public and social distance.
16) Religious exemptions from vaccination mandates should be allowed if medical exemptions are allowed.
17) Individuals should have a religious right not to work on their holy days. Yes, within reasonable accommodation limits.
18) Religious organizations should have the same right to apply for government funding that secular organizations have. YES.
19) Women should have a religious right to obtain an abortion regardless of government restrictions. As long as they pay for it...unless they were raped.
20) Indigenous peoples should have a religious right to refuse infrastructure construction on land they deem sacred. depends whose land it legally is.
21) Polygamy should be permitted as a religious right.I suppose. Knock yourselves out.
22) Publicly traded companies should have religious rights. what rights are we talking about?
23) Religious organizations should have the right to refuse to cover contraceptive services in their health insurance plans. depends how much of a cost increase it is.
24) For-profit companies should have a religious right to refuse to cover contraceptive services in their health insurance plans.\[b\] wait a minute...are corporations people? nonetheless yes they do.


To be continued.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by ringo, posted 10-28-2021 12:13 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by ringo, posted 10-29-2021 11:59 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 17 by anglagard, posted 10-29-2021 1:56 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
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kjsimons
Member
Posts: 740
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 7.6


(2)
Message 13 of 80 (888993)
10-28-2021 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Phat
10-28-2021 3:03 PM


Re: On The Other Hand
Phat, it you would take your religious blinders off you would see just how ridiculous most religious practices/rituals are. I was raised Catholic but fortunately I was very well read in science and history and so it never stuck. I was never a believer and rejected religion completely by age 11 or 12 as it just made no sense and contradicted the science and history I was reading.

This message is a reply to:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6083
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


(3)
Message 14 of 80 (889001)
10-28-2021 11:04 PM


Greatest Right
I’m thinking the best religious freedom of all is the right to make religion, all of it, a relic of our primitive human past and of no force or consequence for a modern world. I wish larger segments of society exercised that right.

Governments, societies, all peoples everywhere can do this wondrous thing (make a relic of religion) by ignoring the religious loony fuckheads. We go and do what we* know is right and fuck their religious sensibilities.

We could crush religion as an intellectual influence in society, in large populations, in nations, in the world (such hopes!), if more people would join the atheist conspiracy*.

Com’on people! We can do this! Protect your rights! Ignore the loonies! Ignore the loonies!

* - Humanists, humanism, the atheist conspiracy, the moral and intellectual conscience of humanity. To join just start ignoring religious loony fuckheads and you’re in. No dues, no fees. Sorry, no membership cards or decoder rings either. What you expect for free, bro?

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

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ringo
Member
Posts: 19302
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 15 of 80 (889010)
10-29-2021 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Phat
10-28-2021 4:09 PM


Re: Freedom From (or Of) Religion
Phat writes:

2) Service personnel on military bases should be permitted religiously mandated headwear regardless of uniform dress codes. Yes, but only during Chapel. Military responsibilities and protocols over ride religious rights.


In Canada, Sikhs, etc. in the Army have the right to wear their religious headgear, apparently even in combat roles. Our former Defense Minister, Harjit Sajjan, was an Army Colonel.

Phat writes:

18) Religious organizations should have the same right to apply for government funding that secular organizations have. YES.


But religious organizations already have tax-exemption rights. Why should they be able to take funds out when they don't put them in?

Phat writes:

19) Women should have a religious right to obtain an abortion regardless of government restrictions. As long as they pay for it...unless they were raped.


That's an odd question. How much demand is there for "a religious right to obtain an abortion"? And making rape an exception has always bothered me. Why does it make a difference?

Phat writes:

20) Indigenous peoples should have a religious right to refuse infrastructure construction on land they deem sacred. depends whose land it legally is.


Apparently you're unaware of the last few hundred years of history. "Whose land it legally is" is very much in dispute.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Phat, posted 10-28-2021 4:09 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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