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Author Topic:   Religious Liberty Quiz
Phat
Member
Posts: 15709
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 46 of 80 (889179)
11-08-2021 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by dwise1
11-08-2021 11:25 AM


Re: Fairness Can Never Be Restored
Exactly. Couldnt of said it better myself. The rich rob everybody else in a sense. What ringo either fails to understand or doesnt care about is that the working middle class are stuck with the added burden of lifting up the poor. It seems unfair for us to bear this burden and does not help us. Granted Jesus may applaud us giving it all up but making the middle class poorer does NOT help everybody.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by dwise1, posted 11-08-2021 11:25 AM dwise1 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by jar, posted 11-08-2021 12:10 PM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 48 by AZPaul3, posted 11-08-2021 12:18 PM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 49 by Percy, posted 11-08-2021 6:53 PM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 50 by ringo, posted 11-09-2021 11:01 AM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33496
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.1


(1)
Message 47 of 80 (889180)
11-08-2021 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Phat
11-08-2021 11:52 AM


Re: Fairness Can Never Be Restored
You keep claiming that social support programs make the middle class poorer but as always never provide any evidence or reasoned arguments to support your assertions.

My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Phat, posted 11-08-2021 11:52 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6083
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 48 of 80 (889181)
11-08-2021 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Phat
11-08-2021 11:52 AM


Re: Fairness Can Never Be Restored
What ringo either fails to understand or doesnt care about is that the working middle class are stuck with the added burden of lifting up the poor.

How is this so?

What makes you think only the middle class are burdened with this?

Apparently, the rich don't want to help and, from your attitude, neither does the middle.

So what do we do? Let the poor stay destitute? Throw their lives to the wolves (the rich and middle)?


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Phat, posted 11-08-2021 11:52 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20410
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 49 of 80 (889189)
11-08-2021 6:53 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Phat
11-08-2021 11:52 AM


Re: Fairness Can Never Be Restored
We're so lucky to live in the United States because here the homeless are not allowed in places where they can be an annoyance. It's not like India where the homeless and their accumulated detritus are gathered into cardboard structures leaning against the base of the apartment buildings of the middle class where the smell of their excrement wafts up to the floors above. It's so much more pleasant here where the messy consequences of our callousness are hidden away and we can live our lives without thinking about those less fortunate than ourselves.

Granted Jesus may applaud us giving it all up but making the middle class poorer does NOT help everybody.

What is the point of believing in God and Jesus if you're only going to end up in hell anyway?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Phat, posted 11-08-2021 11:52 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19302
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


(8)
Message 50 of 80 (889193)
11-09-2021 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Phat
11-08-2021 11:52 AM


Re: Fairness Can Never Be Restored
Phat writes:

What ringo either fails to understand or doesnt care about is that the working middle class are stuck with the added burden of lifting up the poor.


It isn't that I "fail to understand". I flat-out deny it. It's a bloody lie that the rich tell you while they're stealing your eyeballs.

Phat writes:

It seems unfair for us to bear this burden and does not help us.


Who's this "us"? YOU are the only one here complaining about a "burden". Practically everybody here is as middle class as you and they're all trying to tell you that you're being deceived by the right wing.

Phat writes:

Granted Jesus may applaud us giving it all up...


It isn't about "applause". It's about heaven and hell.

I think I have mentioned this before: My father used to say that we make our own heaven and hell on earth. You're content with making life hell for the poor.

quote:
Hosea 8:7 For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind:

Phat writes:

... but making the middle class poorer does NOT help everybody.


Think of the money you would save on welfare. Think of the money you would save on policing. Think of the money you would save on addiction programs.

Helping the poor is an investment, not a burden.


"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Phat, posted 11-08-2021 11:52 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Phat, posted 11-10-2021 12:46 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15709
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 51 of 80 (889204)
11-10-2021 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by ringo
11-09-2021 11:01 AM


Re: Fairness Can Never Be Restored
Well ringo you *do* make sense. I really shouldnt have any animosity but what riles me up in general about the urban poor apart from the fact that so many of them steal from the store I work at(is)the perception that times are getting worse...and not. just economically but in terms of human behavior.

This bothers me and is not simply a political issue that can be fixed through funding!
If human disrespect and callous disregard for their fellow man is bad now, how much worse could it be if times get tougher?

Every time a cartful of boostable products go out our doors I see less chance of a needed cost of living increase for the workers. And i cant help being irritated by the shoplifters...they could care less about employee livlihood.

When i was growing up we were always taught to respect the system rather than attempt to destroy it!!

Of course the Lord has me imagine seeing life through the street peoples eyes.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by ringo, posted 11-09-2021 11:01 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Percy, posted 11-10-2021 5:02 PM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 53 by ringo, posted 11-12-2021 11:03 AM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 54 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-12-2021 11:34 AM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 55 by jar, posted 11-12-2021 3:13 PM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 56 by AZPaul3, posted 11-12-2021 10:05 PM Phat has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20410
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


(4)
Message 52 of 80 (889216)
11-10-2021 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Phat
11-10-2021 12:46 PM


Re: Fairness Can Never Be Restored
Phat writes:

Well ringo you *do* make sense. I really shouldnt have any animosity but what riles me up in general about the urban poor apart from the fact that so many of them steal from the store I work at(is)the perception that times are getting worse...and not. just economically but in terms of human behavior.

You've changed your story with this blame of the urban poor. A couple weeks ago it was "drug addicts and blatant criminals" (Message 27). I don't think you have any idea of the situation of the people stealing from your store.

Blatant criminals are not stealing from your store and then fencing groceries.

Drug addicts have problems separate from poverty.

If the only reason the urban poor are stealing from your store and not the urban rich, then the best way to make it stop is to address their poverty. Get them assistance and jobs. Behave like a Christian and give them a helping hand instead of the back of your hand.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Phat, posted 11-10-2021 12:46 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19302
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


(3)
Message 53 of 80 (889247)
11-12-2021 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by Phat
11-10-2021 12:46 PM


Re: Fairness Can Never Be Restored
Phat writes:

Every time a cartful of boostable products go out our doors I see less chance of a needed cost of living increase for the workers. And i cant help being irritated by the shoplifters...they could care less about employee livlihood.


You unionized workers at Safeway are already making more than the workers doing the same job at non-unionized stores. And they're making more than the people who can't get a decent job or a decent place to live. And yet, you claim to "need" a cost-of-living increase. Why should people care about your livelihood when it's already so much better than their own?

Phat writes:

This bothers me and is not simply a political issue that can be fixed through funding!


It can be improved through funding.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Phat, posted 11-10-2021 12:46 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2622
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 54 of 80 (889252)
11-12-2021 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by Phat
11-10-2021 12:46 PM


Re: Fairness Can Never Be Restored
If human disrespect and callous disregard for their fellow man is bad now, how much worse could it be if times get tougher?

Irony?


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Phat, posted 11-10-2021 12:46 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33496
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.1


(2)
Message 55 of 80 (889253)
11-12-2021 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Phat
11-10-2021 12:46 PM


Re: Fairness Can Never Be Restored
Past UNFairness Can Never Be undone.

But back to basic Christianity and what it teaches.

Humans are fallible.

As a Christian we are required to honestly evaluate our past behavior, acknowledge when we have both done wrong and NOT done what was right.

But wait; there's more. We are then expected to try our best first to make amends (fix what we broke) and to make sure we do not continue to repeat bad past behavior.

It's not God's job to grow the wheat, harvest the crops, build and fill the granaries and feed the people. It was the Government that was mandated to direct the job and the people to do the work.

And there is still yet more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's not even God's job to make sure the weather is nice to grow the crops. It's the Government's job to organize the population to make use of everything favorable and to set aside a surplus for those times when the weather sucks and the economy sucks and things go wrong.

We need to make amends and reparations and set asides and ...

As a Christian it is YOUR job, duty, obligation.


My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Phat, posted 11-10-2021 12:46 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6083
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


(4)
Message 56 of 80 (889256)
11-12-2021 10:05 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Phat
11-10-2021 12:46 PM


Re: Fairness Can Never Be Restored
...what riles me up in general about the urban poor apart from the fact that so many of them steal ...

What did you expect from the abused serfs? How much poorer can they get after generations of systemic poverty? How much more abuse do you require they suffer?

The coming strife will not free them or us. Just change our masters.

For now, I understand the loyal employee thing you are involved in. Theft is not good for the bottom line goes the mantra. Nor is human suffering so deep and pervasive it makes people steal.

Right now retailers write off inventory shrinkage without any impact on the CEO's $100 million annual bonus. It really doesn't impact that level of business at all.

And this, I should think, would please you. It seems the christian thing to do. If your employer can be so forgiving, at least at the higher levels, you should be as well, right?

Matthew 6:25, Psalm 68:3

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Phat, posted 11-10-2021 12:46 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Phat, posted 11-13-2021 8:46 PM AZPaul3 has not yet responded
 Message 60 by Phat, posted 11-15-2021 3:28 PM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15709
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 57 of 80 (889269)
11-13-2021 8:46 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by AZPaul3
11-12-2021 10:05 PM


Re: Fairness Can Never Be Restored
It likely cuts in to the hours allowed for us. Which affects MY Bottom line!

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by AZPaul3, posted 11-12-2021 10:05 PM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by xongsmith, posted 11-13-2021 10:02 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2092
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 58 of 80 (889270)
11-13-2021 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Phat
11-13-2021 8:46 PM


Re: Stealing
Phat writes:
It likely cuts in to the hours allowed for us.

You'll have to explain this. Slowly for us rubes.


"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."

- xongsmith, 5.7d


This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Phat, posted 11-13-2021 8:46 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by AZPaul3, posted 11-14-2021 3:34 AM xongsmith has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6083
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 59 of 80 (889275)
11-14-2021 3:34 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by xongsmith
11-13-2021 10:02 PM


Re: Stealing
I guess the more they steal the less he has to stock. Or something.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by xongsmith, posted 11-13-2021 10:02 PM xongsmith has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15709
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 60 of 80 (889302)
11-15-2021 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by AZPaul3
11-12-2021 10:05 PM


Most Shoplifters Are NOT Poor
Watch this quick video from the news about the types of shoplifters we see every day!


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by AZPaul3, posted 11-12-2021 10:05 PM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Tangle, posted 11-15-2021 3:44 PM Phat has responded

  
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