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Author Topic:   Religious Liberty Quiz
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8236
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 61 of 80 (889303)
11-15-2021 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by Phat
11-15-2021 3:28 PM


Re: Most Shoplifters Are NOT Poor
Phat writes:

Watch this quick video from the news about the types of shoplifters we see every day!

You see that everyday Phat? Are you sure?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Phat, posted 11-15-2021 3:28 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Phat, posted 11-15-2021 4:09 PM Tangle has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15709
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 62 of 80 (889304)
11-15-2021 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Tangle
11-15-2021 3:44 PM


Re: Most Shoplifters Are NOT Poor
At least once a week...though we never go outside like those guys did

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Tangle, posted 11-15-2021 3:44 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Tangle, posted 11-15-2021 4:33 PM Phat has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8236
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 63 of 80 (889305)
11-15-2021 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Phat
11-15-2021 4:09 PM


Re: Most Shoplifters Are NOT Poor
Phat writes:

At least once a week...though we never go outside like those guys did

Ok so not everyday and you don't go out to see it.

Have you ever seen four people in two people carriers with number plates removed do anything like that at your store?

That's not personal shoplifting, that's organised, large-scale theft. If that happened everyday the store would employ security, not just because of the revenue loss but because of reputational damage.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Phat, posted 11-15-2021 4:09 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Phat, posted 11-15-2021 6:32 PM Tangle has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15709
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 64 of 80 (889306)
11-15-2021 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Tangle
11-15-2021 4:33 PM


Re: Most Shoplifters Are NOT Poor
Have you ever seen four people in two people carriers with number plates removed do anything like that at your store?
.Several times. The main difference is that they park outside one of the fire exits and go through there when leaving, as the guard is usually preoccupied up front or has already left.(at 9pm) We have even identified who the perpetrators are by sight. There are likely around 10-12 who do this sort of thing on an ongoing basis. The store security sees them at more than one Safeway as do our competitors.
That's not personal shoplifting, that's organized, large-scale theft. If that happened every day the store would employ security, not just because of the revenue loss but because of reputational damage.
One would think so. The store loses roughly $3500.00 a day on average.

The fact that they don't have permanent security is bewildering to us. We almost think that the head of security is himself in cahoots with organized crime!! The union has lobbied for armed security as a safety issue but so far no results.

We also have smaller time thieves. They roll one cart out and roll it down the street to the bus stop. They are likely the poor disenfranchised masses that tug at your humanistic heartstrings.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Tangle, posted 11-15-2021 4:33 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Tangle, posted 11-15-2021 7:21 PM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 66 by ringo, posted 11-16-2021 11:08 AM Phat has responded
 Message 67 by Percy, posted 11-16-2021 12:45 PM Phat has responded
 Message 68 by nwr, posted 11-16-2021 1:12 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8236
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 65 of 80 (889307)
11-15-2021 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Phat
11-15-2021 6:32 PM


Re: Most Shoplifters Are NOT Poor
Phat writes:

Several times

Ok, so we've now gone from something you see everyday to something you see every week to something you've seen several times.

The store loses roughly $3500.00 a day on average

What is the store's average daily sales?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Phat, posted 11-15-2021 6:32 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19302
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 66 of 80 (889319)
11-16-2021 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Phat
11-15-2021 6:32 PM


Re: Most Shoplifters Are NOT Poor
Phat writes:

We also have smaller time thieves. They roll one cart out and roll it down the street to the bus stop. They are likely the poor disenfranchised masses that tug at your humanistic heartstrings.


Well, those are the ones we've been talking about. You seem to be just as outraged at them.

Phat writes:

The union has lobbied for armed security as a safety issue but so far no results.


I hope your union isn't stupid enough to think that more guns will make you safer. If they are, and if you have have half a brain, you'll tell your union to stop that lobbying.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Phat, posted 11-15-2021 6:32 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Phat, posted 11-18-2021 1:51 PM ringo has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20410
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 67 of 80 (889323)
11-16-2021 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Phat
11-15-2021 6:32 PM


Re: Most Shoplifters Are NOT Poor
Most of what you've been saying the past few months has been nonsense, so I see little likelihood that you've suddenly lapsed into lucidity. Your claims have already shifted, you're telling an incredible story, and I don't think you have a clue what's going on in your grocery store.

$3500/day shrinkage would be 2-3% for a grocery store doing $150,000/day, which looking it up with Google appears to be about average. The categories and percentages of total shrinkage that one supermarket chain reported a few years ago are theft (20%), receiving (11%), damage (5%), retail pricing (4%), accounting errors (3%), and perishables (56%).

You definitely are not losing $3500/day to shoplifting. Your management is probably spending their time more profitably working the perishable problem.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Vocabulary.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Phat, posted 11-15-2021 6:32 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Phat, posted 11-18-2021 1:36 PM Percy has responded

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5833
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 6.0


Message 68 of 80 (889325)
11-16-2021 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Phat
11-15-2021 6:32 PM


Re: Most Shoplifters Are NOT Poor
One would think so. The store loses roughly $3500.00 a day on average.

The reason that the store does not hire more security, is that they have calculated that the cost of the additional security is greater than the shoplifting losses they might prevent.

Some of that shoplifting loss (or pilferage) is probably theft by store employees.


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Phat, posted 11-15-2021 6:32 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
AdminPhat
Inactive Member


Message 69 of 80 (889328)
11-17-2021 9:39 AM


Closing Topic
cLOSING. We are off-topic anyway.

  • Please stay on topic for a thread. Open a new thread for new topics.
  • Points should be supported with evidence and reasoned argumentation.
  • The sincerely held beliefs of other members deserve your respect. Please keep discussion civil. Argue the position, not the person.

  •   
    Admin
    Director
    Posts: 12731
    From: EvC Forum
    Joined: 06-14-2002


    (2)
    Message 70 of 80 (889331)
    11-18-2021 8:52 AM


    Reopening Topic
    The Moderator Guidelines are in need of revision, but one instruction that has been there for a long time and that will definitely survive any and all revisions is this one under Moderator Instructions:

    1. Warn, Then Act

      Members deserve to be informed that they are not in conformance with the forum guidelines, so moderator actions should be preceded by at least one warning.

    There's also this one under Important Moderator Qualities:

    1. With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility

      Be very careful when moderating in any thread where you are also a participant. Never use moderator powers to provide an advantage in discussion.

    AdminPhat's closing of this thread violates these moderator guidelines. There was no warning, and Adminphat was moderating a thread where he was not only the participant but the originator.

    I have reopened this thread.


    --Percy
    EvC Forum Director

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15709
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 71 of 80 (889338)
    11-18-2021 1:36 PM
    Reply to: Message 67 by Percy
    11-16-2021 12:45 PM


    Forget Religion. Liberty In General
    Percy writes:

    You definitely are not losing $3500/day to shoplifting.

    The audacity! For your information, I was shown the monthly figure which was over $115,000.00. Do the math. You seem to think im a blithering idiot.

    $3500/day shrinkage would be 2-3% for a grocery store doing $150,000/day
    We do around $70,000.00 a day.

    socialist ringo writes:

    Why should people care about your livelihood when it's already so much better than their own?

    Because that's how America works. We don't strive for everyone to be making the same wage. Our wage has actually dropped in purchasing power over the past twenty years. The fact that I make more than you is irrelevant. I don't complain that Percy or nwr or Tangle make more than I do. Your Socialism is showing again!

    Which by the way leads us on yet another rabbit trail.Saule Omarova

    Is anyone aware of her plans to nationalize the currency and essentially eliminate private banking? Don't get me started on what a threat that is.

    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 67 by Percy, posted 11-16-2021 12:45 PM Percy has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 75 by nwr, posted 11-18-2021 9:04 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
     Message 76 by Percy, posted 11-18-2021 10:03 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
     Message 78 by Percy, posted 11-19-2021 8:18 AM Phat has not yet responded
     Message 80 by ringo, posted 11-19-2021 11:04 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15709
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 72 of 80 (889340)
    11-18-2021 1:51 PM
    Reply to: Message 66 by ringo
    11-16-2021 11:08 AM


    Re: Most Shoplifters Are NOT Poor
    I hope your union isn't stupid enough to think that more guns will make you safer. If they are, and if you have half a brain, you'll tell your union to stop that lobbying.
    Let me be more precise. We wanted off-duty police to patrol some of our stores. We have no position on armed or not. We just want the authority present to stop the evil that abounds.

    I mean what's the alternative?... To allow the public Carte-Blanche on shoplifting?

    As the shoplifters become more brazen we fear for our security personally.


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 66 by ringo, posted 11-16-2021 11:08 AM ringo has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 73 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-18-2021 3:21 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
     Message 74 by Tangle, posted 11-18-2021 4:01 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
     Message 79 by ringo, posted 11-19-2021 10:47 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    Tanypteryx
    Member
    Posts: 2622
    From: Oregon, USA
    Joined: 08-27-2006
    Member Rating: 5.6


    (2)
    Message 73 of 80 (889343)
    11-18-2021 3:21 PM
    Reply to: Message 72 by Phat
    11-18-2021 1:51 PM


    Re: Most Shoplifters Are NOT Poor
    I mean what's the alternative?... To allow the public Carte-Blanche on shoplifting?

    I can think of several alternatives.

    First, stop lumping desperate people in with professional thieves.

    Start voting for policies and politicians that don't treat poverty as a character flaw.

    Stop acting as if, since everything can't be fixed perfectly at once, we should never even bother to do anything to improve any issue.

    Stop acting as if, acting to improve people's lives is going to make YOU poorer than not acting to improve anything.

    Stop supporting people who's solution for any problem of government, is NOT TO FIX IT OR IMPROVE IT, BUT TO DESTROY IT!!!!

    Doing these things does not diminish you in any way.


    What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

    One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

    If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

    The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 72 by Phat, posted 11-18-2021 1:51 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    Tangle
    Member
    Posts: 8236
    From: UK
    Joined: 10-07-2011
    Member Rating: 4.7


    Message 74 of 80 (889346)
    11-18-2021 4:01 PM
    Reply to: Message 72 by Phat
    11-18-2021 1:51 PM


    Re: Most Shoplifters Are NOT Poor
    I can understand that, it's not right that people can just do that sort of thing and you naturally want to try to stop it.

    But it ain't your shop and the owners don't care so why should you?

    As the shoplifters become more brazen we fear for our security personally.

    You're not at risk if you don't intervene and you're told not to aren't you?


    Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

    "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

    "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
    - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 72 by Phat, posted 11-18-2021 1:51 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    nwr
    Member
    Posts: 5833
    From: Geneva, Illinois
    Joined: 08-08-2005
    Member Rating: 6.0


    (3)
    Message 75 of 80 (889347)
    11-18-2021 9:04 PM
    Reply to: Message 71 by Phat
    11-18-2021 1:36 PM


    Re: Forget Religion. Liberty In General
    Our wage has actually dropped in purchasing power over the past twenty years.

    Then you should stop voting for Republicans.

    Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 71 by Phat, posted 11-18-2021 1:36 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
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