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Author Topic:   How the Bible Actually Works
ringo
Member
Posts: 19613
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 37 of 137 (889693)
12-11-2021 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Phat
12-11-2021 9:19 AM


Re: Trust The Source rather than Ditching Him
Phat writes:

Until I get the actual paperback copies of two books that I am ordering from the author, I cannot quote directly how he explains and believes....


Please DON'T quote him directly. Tell us in your own words how he explains and believes.

Hint: Since you usually can't explain the oh-so-sensible "explanations" that you have seen and read, maybe it should occur to you that they aren't so sensible after all.


"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Phat, posted 12-11-2021 9:19 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Phat, posted 12-11-2021 11:33 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19613
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 40 of 137 (889696)
12-11-2021 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Phat
12-11-2021 9:32 AM


Re: Believe or Not
Phat writes:

... keep in mind that believers don't simply read every book on every religion as well as psychology.


That isn't what believers tell us. Remember Faith? She claimed that she had studied a myriad of other religions before deciding that right-wing-nut fundamentalism was the One True Religion.

Phat writes:

Believers seek God, not becoming free from Him.

quote:
If you love me let it be
If you don't then set me free
Take the chains away
That keep me loving you
-- Olivia Newton-John
Don't confuse slavery with love.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Phat, posted 12-11-2021 9:32 AM Phat has seen this message

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19613
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 41 of 137 (889697)
12-11-2021 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Phat
12-11-2021 9:40 AM


Re: Believing In Things Which Can Be Quantified
Phat writes:

Enns might argue that God will never be understood...


That's another version of, "Some things can't be explained - so here's the explanation."

Edited by ringo, : No reason given.


"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Phat, posted 12-11-2021 9:40 AM Phat has seen this message

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19613
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 42 of 137 (889698)
12-11-2021 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Phat
12-11-2021 9:47 AM


Re: Sola Scriptura vs Prima scriptura
Phat writes:

Unbelievers such as Carrier throw not only God but the Bible and scripture fully away.


Well, YOU throw out the Bible.

Phat writes:

By what map do they seek truth?


Reality.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Phat, posted 12-11-2021 9:47 AM Phat has seen this message

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19613
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 47 of 137 (889703)
12-11-2021 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Phat
12-11-2021 11:33 AM


Re: Trust The Source rather than Ditching Him
PhatI WILL quote him directly. This is the Book Nook Forum...not the In Your Own Words Forum or the Science Forum.

All of EvC is the In Your Own Words Forum. Percy has told you so himself.

Again, if your heroes are making sense, you should be able to explain them sensibly.


"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Phat, posted 12-11-2021 11:33 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Phat, posted 12-11-2021 3:01 PM ringo has seen this message

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19613
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 57 of 137 (889746)
12-13-2021 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Phat
12-12-2021 3:41 PM


Re: if there is Evidence no belief is required.
Phat writes:

I have my evidence and it is internal.


Nope. You don't get to have your own evidence. (How do you think a jury would work if each member had his/her own evidence?)

Phat writes:

Just because you never park your brain at the door does not mean that others, many of the great men of faith had no problems surrendering.


Surrendering isn't about parking your brain at the door.

Phat writes:

... many of the great men of faith had no problems surrendering.


I presume you mean Gautama and Muhammad.

Phat writes:

Salvation begins at an individual level. Not everyone will know. The evidence is internal.


You contradict yourself. Evidence IS what everybody knows.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Phat, posted 12-12-2021 3:41 PM Phat has taken no action

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19613
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 68 of 137 (889932)
12-16-2021 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by Phat
12-15-2021 9:06 PM


Re: Believing In Things Which Can Be Quantified
Phat writes:

I would argue that Jesus Himself said that the road to salvation (and perhaps knowledge or enlightenment) is narrow and few find it while the broad path of what He calls destruction is clogged with masses of humanity.


You need to get your story straight. Do you believe/accept what the Jesus in the "dusty old book" said, or don't you?

And the idea of the "straight and narrow way" is less about exclusivity and more about about difficulty. If anybody is excluded, it's because they exclude themsleves. They aren't willing to make the sacrifices.

Read Matthew 7. The bit about the narrow way is preceded by, "ask (for spare change) and ye shall receive," and it's followed by, "ye shall know them by their fruits."


"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Phat, posted 12-15-2021 9:06 PM Phat has taken no action

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19613
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(2)
Message 82 of 137 (889947)
12-17-2021 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by Phat
12-16-2021 12:27 PM


Re: Resolving A Challenge.
Phat writes:

Of course, you [AZPaul3] and many here are so anti-theistic...


I think untheistic would be a more accurate description for most of us. It's hard to be "anti" something that doesn't exist.

Phat writes:

... that you will be among the last to recognize that there is but One God...


Well, we'd be the first to recognize a god or gods if there was any sign that they existed. YOU, on the other hand, would deny any evidence of any God that wasn't the one YOU have been taught.

Phat writes:

... known through the character of Jesus Christ....


And YOU are the one who denies everything we know about the character of Jesus Christ.

Phat writes:

I know of nobody here at EvC who would give everything away....


You're fixated on "things". It isn't about giving things away. It's about trusting somebody you claim to believe in. No trust = no real belief. With you, it's alll, "Lord! Lord!" and no demonstrated belief at all.

Practically everybody here would give up all the "things" to help their children, etc. Maybe even you would.

Phat writes:

... you ae blissfully unaware of the spiritual war and intrinsic evil in the world unless it is defined through Republicans.


There's plenty of evil in the world besides Republicans. And the blissful ignorance is on your part, thinking your Sky Daddy will magically poof it all away.

There's nobody to fix the evil but us - and you keep trying to wesel out of it.

Phat writes:

You don't believe in any sort of Original Sin....


Original Sin is not an event. It's an explanation of our human nature - the conflict between self-preservation and preservation of the species. That's why most religions - and religions are social institutions - emphasize helping your fellow man. The perverted cult that you follow is an exception.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Phat, posted 12-16-2021 12:27 PM Phat has seen this message

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19613
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 102 of 137 (890056)
12-23-2021 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Phat
12-22-2021 3:01 AM


Re: About characters in books....
Phat writes:

I will never convince anyone at EvC that believers (some, at any rate) have had an encounter with God. I ask myself why I even keep trying.


Because you're whistling in the dark. You're trying to convince yourself, not anybody else.

Phat writes:

Call me crazy...


The consensus seems to be that you're crazy. Are you the only genuine Napoleon in the asylum?

Phat writes:

... but I say to get a clue.


So give us a clue. But you keep telling us there aren'y any.

Phat writes:

You all will have opportunities in your lives to change your mind.


Yes indeed. I used to think like you do but I changed my mind.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Phat, posted 12-22-2021 3:01 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by Phat, posted 12-23-2021 3:03 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19613
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 116 of 137 (890086)
12-24-2021 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by Phat
12-23-2021 3:03 PM


Re: About characters in books....
Phat writes:

I am unafraid to question God, but I never have doubts.


You contradict yourself.

Phat writes:

It is you guys who keep trying to introduce doubts into my thought process.


Doubting everything should be automatic. If you have no doubts, it isn't really a thought process.

Phat writes:

See? This scripture not only mentions Jesus as the chief cornerstone....


Hello? You're the guy who rejects the dusty old book. How dare you use it as your argument?

Phat writes:

I realize that you have been right all along regarding my need to listen to Jesus. I am simply challenging you in regards to doing the same rather than throwing away God's Son simply to be humanist imitations of the Creator.


I didn't "throw away" God's Son. He never existed.

Phat writes:

....but I suppose you could argue that following the message will prevent your damnation.


The only damnation is you damning the people you're supposed to help - and in the process damning yourself to an empty, paranoid life. Look out! Demons to the left of you! Demons to the right of you! Demons in front of you! Who needs more damnation than that?

Phat writes:

For the record, I believe that if hell exists, the only way we would end up there is by us rejecting the message.


So why do you still reject the message?

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Phat, posted 12-23-2021 3:03 PM Phat has seen this message

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19613
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 117 of 137 (890087)
12-24-2021 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Phat
12-23-2021 4:06 PM


Re: About characters in books....
Phat writes:

The jury is still out on whether or not it will ultimately work.


It doesn't matter if it will "ultimately" work (if that even means anything). It works on a day-to-day basis. Helping the less fortunate IS to your benefit. If nothing else, it saves the taxpayer the expense of getting the dead bodies off the street.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Phat, posted 12-23-2021 4:06 PM Phat has seen this message

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19613
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 118 of 137 (890089)
12-24-2021 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by Phat
12-24-2021 8:32 AM


Re: About characters in books....
Phat writes:

You have failed to declare what exactly it is (in the way of a Deity) that you believe in.


You persist in missing the point: Belief is not exact.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Phat, posted 12-24-2021 8:32 AM Phat has seen this message

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19613
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 120 of 137 (890091)
12-24-2021 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by Phat
12-24-2021 10:53 AM


Re: ian? an? Re: About characters in books....
Phat writes:

(and don't lie to us and tell us Hitler was Christian. You will know them by their fruits. )


Read your Bible. That passage (Matthew 7: 15-20) warns of false prophets. You should be testing the people who feed you your doctrines - by their fruits.

Notice also that that passage continues, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." You have to DO the will of God, not just claim to believe.

And it continues... to say that He never knew those who do not DO. You have to believe in DOING.

And it continues... with the parable of the house built on solid rock and the house built on sand - i.e. if your beliefs are not built an a firm foundation, they will do you no good.


"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Phat, posted 12-24-2021 10:53 AM Phat has seen this message

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19613
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 130 of 137 (890175)
12-28-2021 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by Phat
12-27-2021 3:34 AM


Re: How the Bible works in the US today?
Phat writes:

You will never have the majority that you need.


It's probably best not to play the majority card.

quote:
No one in this world, so far as I know - and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me - has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people.

H. L. Mencken


quote:
If you're playing a poker game and you look around the table and and can't tell who the sucker is, it's you.

Paul Newman


Majority does not determine truth.

Th "Moral Majority" was neither.


"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Phat, posted 12-27-2021 3:34 AM Phat has taken no action

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19613
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(3)
Message 131 of 137 (890176)
12-28-2021 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by Phat
12-27-2021 3:41 AM


Re: ian? an? Re: About characters in books....
Phat writes:

According to tradition Jesus was natural.


I had a teacher who used to say, "If cows don't do it, it isn't natural."

When your Big Mac rises from the dead you can compare it to Jesus.


"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Phat, posted 12-27-2021 3:41 AM Phat has seen this message

  
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