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Author Topic:   How the Bible Actually Works
nwr
Member
Posts: 6006
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 8 of 137 (889647)
12-10-2021 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by PaulK
12-10-2021 10:21 AM


Enns has a much more sensible view of the Bible than the fundamentalists.

Yes, that has been my impression of Enns. Perhaps Phat will actually learn something from it.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 6006
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 15 of 137 (889654)
12-10-2021 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by jar
12-10-2021 1:35 PM


You would hope so but read that review from Amazon. It is simply word salad with absolutely no content and crafted to sell to the carny crowds.

Yes, it was a useless review.

So I went to the Amazon page and did the "Look inside" thing. I did not see anything that persuaded me to buy the book. On the other hand, I do know that Enns has a more sensible view of Adam & Eve than is common among evangelicals.


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by jar, posted 12-10-2021 1:35 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by jar, posted 12-10-2021 6:28 PM nwr has replied
 Message 22 by Phat, posted 12-11-2021 9:40 AM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6006
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 17 of 137 (889657)
12-10-2021 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by jar
12-10-2021 6:28 PM


What would you say the likelihood of Phat reading the book and arriving at the position that he can accept that the Jesus of the New Testament is a creation of the human mind?

I'm pretty sure that won't happen. But perhaps reading the book can open Phat's mind just a little.

The trouble with most fundamentalists, is that they did not get their ideas from reading their Bibles. They got them from their churches and their religious community. Yet they are convinced that it comes from the Bible. It is hard to persuade people who have never learned to think for themselves.


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

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nwr
Member
Posts: 6006
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 24 of 137 (889677)
12-11-2021 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Phat
12-11-2021 9:40 AM


Re: Believing In Things Which Can Be Quantified
That's because you would be more inclined to believe that "In the Beginning, Math...

No, math is a purely human invention.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 6006
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 44 of 137 (889700)
12-11-2021 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Phat
12-11-2021 10:07 AM


Re: Believing In Things Which Can Be Quantified
well jar seems to think that God is a purely human invention. Or at least the Bible is.

The Bible was written by humans. There isn't any other possibility.

It is said that the Bible is inspired by God. Even if true, that could only imply that God was the source of the ideas. The words themselves still came from humans.

When humans get an inspiration and write things down based on those inspired ideas, what they write down is sometimes wrong. They are still human ideas, and humans are infallible.

Humans wrote the Bible; God wrote the rocks.


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 6006
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


(2)
Message 46 of 137 (889702)
12-11-2021 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Phat
12-11-2021 11:23 AM


Re: Believing In Things Which Can Be Quantified
GOD could give you evidence if you would park your brain long enough to trust Him.

If God gave you a brain, then he meant for you to use it -- not to park it.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Phat, posted 12-11-2021 11:23 AM Phat has seen this message

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6006
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 75 of 137 (889939)
12-16-2021 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by AZPaul3
12-16-2021 11:34 AM


Re: Resolving A Challenge.
The ideal, at least in my mind, is that Phat let the scales fall from his eyes and embrace the reality of the universe and the humanist/science mindset it engenders thus motivating him to more realistically thus more effectively attack his health problems.

Indeed. However, as we know from experience, that is unlikely to happen.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

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 Message 69 by AZPaul3, posted 12-16-2021 11:34 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6006
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


(3)
Message 77 of 137 (889941)
12-16-2021 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by Phat
12-16-2021 12:27 PM


Re: Resolving A Challenge.
I'll put on my theological hat for a moment.

Likely jar is right in that most of the goats will be Christians, but he seems to think that belief is unimportant and that behavior toward others is key.

This is where modern Christianity has gone astray. It misconstrues faith as belief. But those are not the same. Faith should be more like trust. To have faith in Jesus is to follow his commands, even when you don't fully understand them.

That's the whole point of "faith without works is dead". If you have the faith, then behaving toward others should come naturally. The idea that you are saved by faith alone, is simply that your behavior is graded on effort rather than actual results. The widows mite was a very small amount, but it indicated a lot of effort.

Taking "faith" to be merely empty belief pretty much destroys the whole basis for Christianity.

His idea of God and my idea of God are entirely different.

Yes, they are.

In fact, most of you reject God because the Deity failed to produce conclusive evidence for you to examine.

If people were working together to form a better world, that would be enough evidence for me. But they aren't, and too often it is the Christians who are failing us.

And perhaps thats a weakness of Biblical Christians(people who believe in a literal Bible, an exclusive connection with God through Jesus Christ) and ironically usually a selfish streak in them that would have them protect the assets and interests of their family first...before humanistically helping the world-at-large.

They looks so much like the intellectual heirs of Judas Iscariot. Every day they betray Jesus for 30 pieces of silver.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Phat, posted 12-16-2021 12:27 PM Phat has taken no action

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6006
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 94 of 137 (890042)
12-22-2021 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by Phat
12-22-2021 10:30 AM


Re: About characters in books....
I won't join the chorus of crazy calling.

First off, there is no "God" found anywhere other than human descriptions.

Yes, this is correct. And those descriptions are all over the map.

There's no doubt that some people believe that there's a God, but it is pretty clear that there is a lot of making stuff up. If there is a God, then He should be unchanging. But the descriptions of God in the Bible do change.

As to whether there is a God -- I don't know, and you likely cannot know either. I can live with that uncertainty. Can you?


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Phat, posted 12-22-2021 10:30 AM Phat has taken no action

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6006
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 134 of 137 (890203)
12-29-2021 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Phat
12-29-2021 12:18 PM


Re: About characters in books....
And that the Evangelicals were ignorant, greedy, and immoral??

You can tell that, just by watching what they do and say.

1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil

and yet Evangelicals give us "the prosperity gospel".


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
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