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Author Topic:   Do you have Questions for a Gnostic Christian?
PaulK
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Posts: 17166
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.5


(2)
Message 24 of 150 (890255)
12-30-2021 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Greatest I am
12-30-2021 11:30 AM


quote:
Do you think Gnostics really ignored that men want a wife to call his own?

But the fragment says that it is wrong to do so. And not for the reason that a wife should not be treated as a possession. Even worse it ignorantly cites nature as an example when in reality animals have a variety of mating habits, varying by species.

quote:
But on a moral note, sharing a woman is more moral than being misogynous and lowering the worth of a human being.

No. Holding that a woman is to be treated as property is misogynistic and lowers the worth of a human being.

It’s also ripe for abuse in a religious context.

It’s a fine example of what’s wrong with religion.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Greatest I am, posted 12-30-2021 11:30 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Greatest I am, posted 12-30-2021 3:23 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17166
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 31 of 150 (890270)
12-30-2021 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Greatest I am
12-30-2021 3:23 PM


quote:
Read my last to another Paol, and I think you will see that it is all a communal ownership of all men and women that is implied, and to Christians, that full sharing is called Heaven.

That seems to be a rather questionable interpretation when the text explicitly states that “He brought the female to be with the male in common and in the same way united all the animals”, “…all can share her…”, “…he has implanted in males a strong and ardent desire which neither law nor custom nor any other restraint is able to destroy…” and “…by the words Your neighbors wife he says something even more ludicrous, since he forces what should be common property to be treated as private posession”.

It sounds like incel bullshit to me.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Greatest I am, posted 12-30-2021 3:23 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Greatest I am, posted 12-31-2021 1:02 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17166
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 40 of 150 (890291)
12-31-2021 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Greatest I am
12-31-2021 1:02 PM


quote:
What is B.S. about a man wanting to posses a wife to call his own?

Pay attention. I didn’t call that bullshit. I called the idea of treating women as common property bullshit.

But I guess that you realise that the text you chose is indefensible. Otherwise you’d try to defend it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Greatest I am, posted 12-31-2021 1:02 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Greatest I am, posted 12-31-2021 5:30 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17166
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 44 of 150 (890302)
12-31-2021 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Greatest I am
12-31-2021 5:30 PM


I was paying attention. That’s how I know that you did not defend what the scripture actually says.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Greatest I am, posted 12-31-2021 5:30 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Greatest I am, posted 12-31-2021 5:46 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17166
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 47 of 150 (890315)
01-01-2022 1:13 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Greatest I am
12-31-2021 5:46 PM


quote:
The fact that no Gnostic Christian sect ever did what you say I have to defend, ---because you cannot understand the defence I gave of the text, --- shows that you do not see it saying that men's instincts and desires demanded specific wives and did not give credence to sexual universality on Earth. Only in heaven, just as the other Christianity had.

I very much doubt that “no Gnostic Christian sect” ever followed that scripture. In fact it looks like the usual excuse to give the leaders sexual access to the wives of their followers.

However, that is a secondary concern. The text says what it says, independent of whether any Gnostic Christian sect actually followed it. Even if it were only to be implemented in “heaven” you could defend it on that basis. But you do not defend what it says.

Indeed, since the text is about “wives” it cannot possibly refer to a situation where there is no marriage. If there is no marriage in “heaven” then the text obviously is not talking about “heaven”.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Greatest I am, posted 12-31-2021 5:46 PM Greatest I am has taken no action

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17166
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 60 of 150 (890541)
01-07-2022 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Phat
01-07-2022 4:04 PM


Re: Jesus was never anointed to Christ
quote:
I can prove you wrong right now if you name a short list of those who HAVE attained Christ status

Can you? Let’s start with Saul (1 Samuel 10:1)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Phat, posted 01-07-2022 4:04 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by jar, posted 01-07-2022 4:31 PM PaulK has taken no action
 Message 63 by Phat, posted 01-09-2022 2:39 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17166
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 67 of 150 (890677)
01-09-2022 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Phat
01-09-2022 2:39 PM


Re: Jesus was never anointed to Christ
quote:
Saul was annointed an earthly king by humans. Jesus was officially anointed through baptism by John the Baptist and as the story goes was verified through God Himself.

Baptism is not anointment. Water is not oil. Try again.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Phat, posted 01-09-2022 2:39 PM Phat has seen this message

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17166
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 74 of 150 (890734)
01-10-2022 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by jar
01-10-2022 10:05 AM


Re: Jesus was never anointed to Christ
That’s an answer worthy of the Christian Cult of Ignorance.

Anglican baptism practices are not the question. The practices of John the Baptist is the question. Feel free to provide evidence that John the Baptist included anointment as part of his baptism. Or better that he did so specifically - and only - for Jesus.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by jar, posted 01-10-2022 10:05 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by jar, posted 01-10-2022 1:49 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17166
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 81 of 150 (890760)
01-10-2022 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by jar
01-10-2022 1:49 PM


Re: Jesus was never anointed to Christ
That some sects of Christianity include anointment as an optional part of their baptism ceremony is hardly relevant to the question.

Baptism is not anointment.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by jar, posted 01-10-2022 1:49 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by jar, posted 01-10-2022 4:29 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17166
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 85 of 150 (890791)
01-10-2022 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by jar
01-10-2022 4:29 PM


Re: Jesus was never anointed to Christ
quote:
Anointment has absolutely nothing to do with divinity.

Nobody said that it did. Anointment does have a lot to do with being anointed, which is the point.

quote:
The whole issue of whether or not Jesus was anointed is totally irrelevant to anything related to whether or not Jesus was divine.

And again, nobody said that it did.

quote:
The "Jesus was not anointed" issue is simply irrelevant to anything other than whether or not Jesus was part of the priesthood and officially recognized as such by the Jewish hierarchy at the time.

The Messiah is supposed to be of the Davidic line and restore the monarchy, so the anointment of kings would be more relevant.

Jesus was almost certainly not of the Davidic line and was never crowned as King of Judah or Israel.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by jar, posted 01-10-2022 4:29 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by jar, posted 01-10-2022 5:00 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17166
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 87 of 150 (890796)
01-10-2022 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by jar
01-10-2022 5:00 PM


Re: Jesus was never anointed to Christ
quote:
And Jesus is not and has never been seen as a Jewish Messiah.

Many Christians - especially “Messianic Jews” would disagree.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by jar, posted 01-10-2022 5:00 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by jar, posted 01-10-2022 5:54 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17166
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 91 of 150 (890846)
01-11-2022 12:08 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by jar
01-10-2022 5:54 PM


Re: Jesus was never anointed to Christ
That includes the authors of (at least) the Gispels of Matthew and Luke. That, after all, is the point of the Bethlehem birth and the genealogies (all likely fictional).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by jar, posted 01-10-2022 5:54 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by jar, posted 01-11-2022 7:40 AM PaulK has taken no action

  
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