The Power of the New Intelligent Design...

Quick question Dredge. I'm trying to understand exactly what you do believe. Is it instant creationism, is it a guided evolutionary program or is it intelligent design as per the Discovery Institute? If the latter can you outline your view of that belief.Also why do you hold that belief in light of your Christian faith?

The term "intelligent design" is a slippery one and on this forum we have to be careful as to how we use it I agree with the basic use of the term but unfortunately the folks behind the Discovery Institute have co=opted the term and have made it a term based on a weak scientific theory. I think that the best way of looking at this is that taken by Chris Barrigar in his book Freedom All the Way UpWe live in a world where the future is open and where conscious creatures such as ourselves have free will. Barrigar with an extensive background in theology, philosophy and science thoughtfully proposes that God brought about life with the evolutionary process designed in such a way to have a high probability of ultimately producing sentient creatures with the capability of what he calls agapeic love.In that sense evolution becomes an entirely natural process which is really all we have evidence for. Barrigar's position is that there was no need for God to intervene in the process.You raise the point of starting with simple life forms. The simple life forms are again something that shouldn't necessarily be considered as being the result of instant creation but it seems logical to believe there were natural processes that brought them into existence as well. Apparently the world was around for around 10 billion years before those simple life forms came into exitance. I suggest that God is the mind behind the processes that allowed for the probability of life.All of that of course is simply a discussion around the concept of creative intelligence as being distinct from being about any specific deity. It even includes deism. I'd be really careful about calling atheism demonic. Firstly if we are the result of evolution then maybe we should look at natural causes for evil. When we do that we can then look at the evil that is done by both theists including Christianist in the name of their deity, as well as the good that atheists can do.Also, I'd suggest that using that type of language about those who disagree with you is not helpful and frankly kinda un-Christian.I believe that God does intervene in this world through the hearts and minds of conscious beings and particularly through humans.

I think you are reading something into this that wasn't intended. Science tells us taht some day this world will no longer exist due to some cosmic catastrophe. Personally I believe that civilization will end because we did oursleves in with nuclear or chemical weapons, or maybe somw virus. But that isn't the point.Barrigar's point is that when civilization comes to an end and if there is nothing other than the material, then the meaning and purposes we had in this life will ultimately have no meaning and purpose. However, that does not mean that a materialist can't have meaning and purpose. They can fulfil whatever meaning and purpose they assign to thier lives, which might well include to leave this world a better place because they were here. However again, as this is a finite world and if materialism represents actual reality, then ultimately there is no meaning or purpose to our lives that aren't simply transitory.

Wouldn't disagree with any of that. My point was that you misunderstood what Barrigar was saying and I wanted to correct it. Nothing wrong and it isn't a problem I agree with all of that. I do suggest that the difference is between our meanings and purposes in this life that would no longer be meaningful with the end of civilization as opposed to having meaning that would extend beyond this existence and into the next. That's reasonable and well put.