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Author Topic:   All About Biblical Kinds
dwise1
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Posts: 5073
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 46 of 64 (892007)
02-20-2022 3:10 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by MrIntelligentDesign
02-19-2022 1:30 PM


Re: Goes with the territory.
Marjorie Taylor Greene is a fucking traitor who should be swinging from a yardarm.

She is a QAnon bot, spreading their destructive misinformation.

Her office was intimately involved in the White House's plans for the 06 Jan 2021 attack on the Capitol and the organized attempt to overthrow the legitimately elected government of the United States of America. Along with several other GQP members of Congress, traitors all of them.

Those traitors' goals are to destroy America. Duh?


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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3296
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 47 of 64 (892011)
02-20-2022 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by dwise1
02-20-2022 3:10 AM


Re: Goes with the territory.
Plus, she publicly threatening to kill the Speaker of the United States House of Representatives.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
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PaulK
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Posts: 17167
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 48 of 64 (892012)
02-20-2022 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Tanypteryx
02-20-2022 12:12 PM


Re: Goes with the territory.
But who else would alert us to the threat of Jewish Space Lasers causing wildfires in California?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-20-2022 12:12 PM Tanypteryx has replied

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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3296
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 49 of 64 (892014)
02-20-2022 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by PaulK
02-20-2022 12:36 PM


Re: Goes with the territory.
Oh damn! I forgot about that.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by PaulK, posted 02-20-2022 12:36 PM PaulK has taken no action

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5073
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 50 of 64 (892017)
02-20-2022 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by PaulK
02-20-2022 12:36 PM


Re: Goes with the territory.
But who else would alert us to the threat of Jewish Space Lasers causing wildfires in California?

The Secret Jewish Space Laser Corps! I have the tshirt, the challenge coin, and the decoder ring (code keys are images of a shofar, wine, Torah, grapes, a bee, a loaf of challah, and work "chai" in Hebrew). Mazel Tough!

That's an interesting false claim. Most QAnon BS is taken from TV or movies, like reptilian humanoids posing as human ("V"), hacking a secure site through an airconditioning control ("Mr. Robot"). Or else it's traditional BS, like the centuries-old blood libel against the Jews (which, according to my Rabbinic Lit professor, Rabbi Kalir, is the reason for opening the door for Elijah at a Seder, so that they could show the Gentiles that there's nothing secret going on and the wine they're drinking is actually wine, not the blood of kidnapped Gentile children).

But this one was a bit more esoteric. Back in 1977, a physicist named Gerard O'Neill (who sported a Vulcan haircut) wrote some books advocating for space colonies. The colonists would live on the inner surface of a rotating cylinder or sphere (think of the design of the Babylon 5 station) constructed with aluminum mined from the moon. They would be financed through the construction of power satellites. Those satellites could collect solar energy and then deliver that power to the earth via a microwave beam that would be received by an array of antennae on earth and converted back to electricity. When I heard QAnon Betty's mention of those "space lasers", it was obvious that this is what she was referring to, even though we don't have any yet, plus they would be space masers, not lasers.


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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3296
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 51 of 64 (892018)
02-20-2022 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by dwise1
02-20-2022 3:07 PM


Re: Goes with the territory.
That's an interesting false claim. Most QAnon BS is taken from TV or movies, like reptilian humanoids posing as human ("V"), hacking a secure site through an airconditioning control ("Mr. Robot"). Or else it's traditional BS,

I don't know anything about that woman (MTG) other than seeing clips of her saying bizarre and inflammatory things and in public text statements. I assume and hope someone in the U.S. Justice Dept. is keeping track and gathering evidence of her federal crimes. It looks like multiple instances of treason to me, as well as a bunch of other felonies. They brag about this shit on Fox.

To me she just seems too ignorant and stupid to have any knowledge of reality or history. She is the perfect Putin/trump windup robot. Her function is to spread as much chaos and disfunction and distrust of government as possible.

Back in 1977, a physicist named Gerard O'Neill (who sported a Vulcan haircut) wrote some books advocating for space colonies. The colonists would live on the inner surface of a rotating cylinder or sphere (think of the design of the Babylon 5 station) constructed with aluminum mined from the moon.

In 1969, when we watched the first man taking a step on the moon, that day, my friends and I speculated what came next. We all figured that by now, 50+ years later we would be well on our way to at least one Babylon 5 station.

Years later, some of the same friends watched the first images of Saturn's rings on a color TV in false colors broadcast from JPL. Images that astounded us, processed by software similar to primitive Adobe Photoshop, but running on massive mainframe computers. Shit I can do most of that stuff on my phone now, and the Earth's only space station is a pathetic joke compared to Babylon 5.

This isn't the American Ideal I dreamed of back then, that's for sure! (Of course we don't have any alien races to forge peace with either, but gigantic space stations are still a great idea.)


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by dwise1, posted 02-20-2022 3:07 PM dwise1 has taken no action

  
Jzyehoshua
Member
Posts: 153
Joined: 06-10-2010


Message 52 of 64 (892091)
02-25-2022 6:18 PM


Biblically -Based Phylogeny
I have a Biblically-based phylogeny here:

https://biblestrength.net/wiki/Baramin

It's a bit rudimentary but gives a general idea. Genesis 1:11-12 and 1:20-30 first creates a distinction between plants and animals, flora and fauna. Plants are divided into seed-sowing plants and fruit trees, the latter said to have seed within themselves, so how seeding occurs is the basis for differentiation according to Gen. 1:12.

Based on Genesis 1, there are 8 categories of fauna, mayim sherets (marine creeping things), owph (flying creatures - which includes owph sherets - flying creeping things), gadowl tanniyn (huge dragons - dinosaurs), mayim chay (marine life), 'erets chay (earth life), behemah (cattle), remes (reptiles), and adam (man).

Further phylogenous distinctions can be drawn from Lev. 11, but this serves as the basic framework.


Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by AZPaul3, posted 02-25-2022 8:26 PM Jzyehoshua has replied
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6642
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 53 of 64 (892095)
02-25-2022 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Jzyehoshua
02-25-2022 6:18 PM


Re: Biblically -Based Phylogeny
Here is a better site for you.

This, of course, is a reality-based phylogeny. This is just one of thousands documented over the years.

Real Phylogeny

You have a lot of work to do if your offering is going to compete with what is already known.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Jzyehoshua, posted 02-25-2022 6:18 PM Jzyehoshua has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Jzyehoshua, posted 02-25-2022 8:49 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Jzyehoshua
Member
Posts: 153
Joined: 06-10-2010


Message 54 of 64 (892096)
02-25-2022 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by AZPaul3
02-25-2022 8:26 PM


Re: Biblically -Based Phylogeny
That 'real phylogeny' fails the test for falsification Darwin set for the original theory of evolution, discovery of transitional forms/missing links. Darwinists in the 1970s did a bait and switch to avoid the complete lack of such evidence for evolution from a common ancestor in the fossil record, creating a new theory called Punctuated Equilibrium to propose that evolution just sped up rapidly in response to the very catastrophes Darwin and Lyell originally denied, too rapidly for transitional forms in the fossil record.

Meanwhile, evolutionist claims made for a century of a knucklewalking ancestor to humans similar to modern apes has proven a complete fiction, as the earliest hominids have proven bipedal, dispelling the possibility of a knucklewalking ancestor comparable to modern apes. See e.g. Ardipithecus ramidus, Sahelanthropus tchadensis, Orrorin tugenensis, and Australopithecus afarensis.

"Move over Lucy. And kiss the missing link goodbye... The fossil puts to rest the notion, popular since Darwin's time, that a chimpanzee-like missing link—resembling something between humans and today's apes—would eventually be found at the root of the human family tree. Indeed, the new evidence suggests that the study of chimpanzee anatomy and behavior—long used to infer the nature of the earliest human ancestors—is largely irrelevant to understanding our beginnings... 'This find is far more important than Lucy,' said Alan Walker, a paleontologist from Pennsylvania State University who was not part of the research. 'It shows that the last common ancestor with chimps didn't look like a chimp, or a human, or some funny thing in between... 'All of a sudden you've got fingers and toes and arms and legs and heads and teeth,' said Tim White of the University of California, Berkeley, who co-directed the work with Berhane Asfaw, a paleoanthropologist and former director of the National Museum of Ethiopia, and Giday WoldeGabriel, a geologist at Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico. 'That allows you to do something you can't do with isolated specimens,' White said. 'It allows you to do biology.'"

Oldest Skeleton of Human Ancestor Found

Furthermore, the ONLY chimp fossil ever discovered (and evolutionists claiming human-chimp shared ancestry have a real problem since the chimp fossils are all otherwise missing) was in the wrong place for the Savannah Hypothesis, meaning the major explanation for why humans and chimps split was completely debunked.

First chimp fossil unearthed - Nature

Then there are microevolutionary rates, which are rapid (like population growth rates) on the scale of a young Creation, and raise the question of why, if a common ancestor to all life and macroevolution are reality, such macroevolution is not observable, only microevolution (not to mention that the deeper one goes back into the fossil record the more one sees the same types of life seen today, even aside from living fossils, rather than the bizarrely random mixes and transitions expected if a common ancestor to all life was a reality). Examples include Australia's toxic toad and Italian wall lizards, which have evolved new organs and appendage changes within decades, not thousands of years as predicted by evolutionists. Nonetheless they have not produced macroevolution but remain identifiable as their Biblical kinds.

My detailed page on the evidence for Creationism will be here.

https://biblestrength.net/wiki/Creationism


This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by AZPaul3, posted 02-25-2022 8:26 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by AZPaul3, posted 02-25-2022 10:39 PM Jzyehoshua has replied
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6642
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 55 of 64 (892104)
02-25-2022 10:39 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Jzyehoshua
02-25-2022 8:49 PM


Re: Biblically -Based Phylogeny
I’m at a loss here. I’ve heard all these creationist arguments many times over the years but reading it all in one place, the accumulation of your arguments, the juxtapositions of the arguments, well, it’s compelling. I think maybe you’ve done it. You may have just put the final nail in the coffin of evolution.

So now what? What do you do with your victory?

If you could use your new status to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless, protect the weak, heal the sick and comfort the sorrowful, that would be great. You don't even need to show how you can cure disease the way ToE has.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Jzyehoshua, posted 02-25-2022 8:49 PM Jzyehoshua has replied

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Jzyehoshua
Member
Posts: 153
Joined: 06-10-2010


Message 56 of 64 (892109)
02-26-2022 1:04 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by AZPaul3
02-25-2022 10:39 PM


Re: Biblically -Based Phylogeny
I just speak out of conviction to spread truth. Hypothesizing what-if scenarios is an exercise in futility. One should do the best one can at all times.

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17167
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 57 of 64 (892110)
02-26-2022 1:26 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Jzyehoshua
02-26-2022 1:04 AM


Re: Biblically -Based Phylogeny
quote:
I just speak out of conviction to spread truth

It doesn’t look like it. Until you deal honestly with the fact of transitional fossils - and explain their existence - you aren’t doing that at all.

quote:
Hypothesizing what-if scenarios is an exercise in futility

“Biblically-based phylogeny” is necessarily an exercise in speculation.

quote:
One should do the best one can at all times.

So, start with the fact that evolutionary theory passed the test and many transitional fossils have been discovered. Any theory must explain their existence - which is why creationists so often try to deny their existence. The truth must give way to their dogma - that is the whole point of creationism.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Jzyehoshua, posted 02-26-2022 1:04 AM Jzyehoshua has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Jzyehoshua, posted 02-26-2022 1:45 AM PaulK has replied

  
Jzyehoshua
Member
Posts: 153
Joined: 06-10-2010


Message 58 of 64 (892112)
02-26-2022 1:45 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by PaulK
02-26-2022 1:26 AM


Re: Biblically -Based Phylogeny
quote:
It doesn’t look like it. Until you deal honestly with the fact of transitional fossils - and explain their existence - you aren’t doing that at all.

I don't see any transitional fossils. There are a few rare controversial cases like Tiktaalik that get brought up but the overwhelming majority show microevolution within Biblical kinds and are not even remotely interpretable as between them.

Biblically, transitions are expected within Biblical kinds but not between them, which is what the fossil record shows, microevolution, not macroevolution. Gen. 1 mentioned microevolution thousands of years before Darwin, God told species to bring forth after their kinds. Dinosaurs in Eden (and Satan is a dinosaur/dragon Biblically, not a typical snake - Rev. 12:9) were changed to crawl in the dust, so transitions are expected for them shrinking and changing their hip structure. Humans were changed from more robust 900-year lifespans to 120-year lifespans per Gen. 6:3.

quote:
“Biblically-based phylogeny” is necessarily an exercise in speculation.

More like an exercise in reading comprehension. The basic categories of life, as well as the phylogenous distinctions between them, are clearly stated in Gen. 1. More distinctions are stated in Lev. 11.

quote:
So, start with the fact that evolutionary theory passed the test and many transitional fossils have been discovered.

They haven't been discovered. The fossil record consistently shows long periods of gradual microevolution and then sudden appearance of brand new species. That was the whole reason for creating the theory of Punctuated Equilibrium, to explain the consistent lack of macroevolutionary transitional forms.


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 Message 57 by PaulK, posted 02-26-2022 1:26 AM PaulK has replied

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17167
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 59 of 64 (892117)
02-26-2022 2:24 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Jzyehoshua
02-26-2022 1:45 AM


Re: Biblically -Based Phylogeny
quote:
I don't see any transitional fossils. There are a few rare controversial cases like Tiktaalik that get brought up but the overwhelming majority show microevolution within Biblical kinds and are not even remotely interpretable as between them.

Really? Archaeopteryx- described by Stephen Jay Gould as a perfect example - is very well known. Seymouria is another. And there are many, many more - morganucodon is an important one. If you haven’t actually investigated (and no, relying on creationist sources does not qualify) then you aren’t in a position to say.

quote:
Biblically, transitions are expected within Biblical kinds but not between them, which is what the fossil record shows, microevolution, not macroevolution.

Actually the evidence for microevolution is largely missing from the fossil record. Those are the gaps explained by punctuated evolution. Transitional fossils generally point to macroevolution (as science defines it).

quote:
More like an exercise in reading comprehension

Hardly. The Bible doesn’t clearly define the term, and it seems to be essentially a folk-concept related to species. There is certainly nothing to say that “kinds” represent any limit on evolution. That’s just an invention of creationists when they finally realised that they couldn’t fit all modern species on Noah’s Ark.

quote:
They haven't been discovered. The fossil record consistently shows long periods of gradual microevolution and then sudden appearance of brand new species. That was the whole reason for creating the theory of Punctuated Equilibrium, to explain the consistent lack of macroevolutionary transitional forms.

Punctuated equilibrium was invented to apply existing evolutionary theory to the fossil record. The missing transitional are intermediates between species - so examples of microevolution - as you admit. Let us note also that you accept evolution between species so your claim here sabotages any argument you might make from Punctuated Equilibria. If the intermediates that are missing are for the evolution you accept then the issue has no relevance.

Edited by PaulK, : Dealt with auto-”correction”


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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3296
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 60 of 64 (892127)
02-26-2022 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Jzyehoshua
02-25-2022 8:49 PM


Re: Biblically -Based Phylogeny
That 'real phylogeny' fails the test for falsification Darwin set for the original theory of evolution, discovery of transitional forms/missing links.

Sorry, but you are misinformed. Thousands of transitional fossils have been found and cataloged and documented in tens of thousands of publications. Just because you haven't read any of them doesn't mean they don't exist.

Transitional fossils doesn't just refer to fossils showing connection between later fossil lineages, but to transitional fossils showing the evolution of individual features within lineages.

Modern phylogenies have survived all the falsification tests.

Darwinists in the 1970s did a bait and switch to avoid the complete lack of such evidence for evolution from a common ancestor in the fossil record, creating a new theory called Punctuated Equilibrium to propose that evolution just sped up rapidly in response to the very catastrophes Darwin and Lyell originally denied, too rapidly for transitional forms in the fossil record.

This clearly demonstrates that you have no clue what Punctuated Equilibrium is or how it works.

Meanwhile, evolutionist claims made for a century of a knucklewalking ancestor to humans similar to modern apes has proven a complete fiction,

You are correct, it is complete fiction, that you just made up.

Some dimwit a century ago may have said something like that, but it has not been any part of the Theory of Evolution.

Then there are microevolutionary rates, which are rapid (like population growth rates) on the scale of a young Creation, and raise the question of why, if a common ancestor to all life and macroevolution are reality, such macroevolution is not observable, only microevolution

What microevolutionary rates, for which species? How do you measure these rates.

You incorrectly imply that microevolution and macroevolution are different processes, when in fact, they are the same process. Macroevolution is just microevolution over many more generations. Small incremental changes adding up to big differences from ancient ancestors.

(not to mention that the deeper one goes back into the fossil record the more one sees the same types of life seen today, even aside from living fossils, rather than the bizarrely random mixes and transitions expected if a common ancestor to all life was a reality).

This doesn't make any sense at all. Older fossils look more different from modern species than younger fossils in the same lineages.

And even aside from living fossils, what?

rather than the bizarrely random mixes and transitions expected if a common ancestor to all life was a reality).

Who expects bizarrely random mixes and transitions? No scientists I am aware of have these expectations if life evolved from a common ancestor.

Examples include Australia's toxic toad and Italian wall lizards, which have evolved new organs and appendage changes within decades, not thousands of years as predicted by evolutionists.

I have no idea what species or what changes occurred since you don't supply any support. Modern evolutionary biologists know that the tempo of evolutionary change is highly variable and that major changes in morphology can be as simple as switching a single regulatory gene off or on.

Nice Gish Gallop, by the way.

Edited by Tanypteryx, : No reason given.

Edited by Tanypteryx, : No reason given.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Jzyehoshua, posted 02-25-2022 8:49 PM Jzyehoshua has taken no action

  
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