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Author Topic:   Is the “Fine-Tuned Universe” an Illusion?
nwr
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From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
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(5)
Message 6 of 61 (891710)
02-09-2022 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by AZPaul3
02-09-2022 6:18 PM


Re: Fine Tuned
You might even say this universe is fine tuned to create telescopes.

Looking around, I'm more inclined to think it is fine tuned to create idiots.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

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nwr
Member
Posts: 6008
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


(4)
Message 36 of 61 (891846)
02-13-2022 9:32 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by AZPaul3
02-13-2022 8:22 PM


Re: Objective Reality
So the way to make QM consistent and meaningful is to ditch objective reality.

I have not ditched "objective reality". But I have changed what I mean by that term.

From the way that I look at it, there isn't a way that the world is. But there is a way that I experience the world. And there's a way that you experience the world. But I cannot have your experiences and you cannot have my experiences.

So I talk about how I experience the world. And you talk about how you experience it. And we find that we can communicate, and we can agree about a lot of what we experience. So I see "objective reality" as those aspects of our experience about which there is widespread agreement.


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

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nwr
Member
Posts: 6008
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 44 of 61 (891854)
02-14-2022 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Son Goku
02-14-2022 10:03 AM


Re: Objective Reality
Heisenberg did say you have to ditch it below a certain length scale otherwise you'd model Helium wrong.

I'm not a QM expert. I have been looking at it from the point of view of studying human cognition.

From that perspective, the completely objective reality consists of undifferentiated stuff. It is up to us to make distinctions. So a primary perceptual action is to categorize the world. Maybe it is better to describe that as "thingifying the world" -- dividing the world into things. And reality does not dictate how this should be done. Most of how we do this is driven by pragmatics. But that leaves some uncertainty that is not fixed by reality. And, as an example, we get to Helium by way of this thingifying.

This seems to fit with what I know of the QM point of view. When we thingify the world, that gives us a world of things. But that seems to be pretty much the same idea as collapsing the wave function. All of classical physics is about the things that we come up with as we thingify the world. And the uncertainty in how we do this seems to relate to QM uncertainty.


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

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