The War in Europe

Tanypteryz argues:

...Then we should just get on with it now. No warning, no more waiting. Hit Moscow with the 10 biggest nukes we have now. I'm not trying to make light of what you are saying, but we all know with certainty that the only thing that will stop that murderous fuck is death. The only way to stop him is to take him out along with as many of his thugs and as much of his tyrant shit as possible....

Assumes he is still IN MOSCOW and the millions of victims there that are innocent don't matter. No, as always the answer here is assassination. If #TzarVladimirtheCondemned is blocked enough times, someone will get through, maybe a drone's conventional bomb will find him. I imagine the top level security forces with Biden are not saying what they're doing for a very good reason.

If he tries to starve Ukraine, the West will air drop food and medicines or drive them in on the captured tanks. The whole world will be against him.

kick his ass out of EvC.

he has nothing to say but weird planks of broken flying wood.

LNA has finally been suspended, hopefully FOREVER!

Children are running in the streets cheering!
All the towns declare a holiday!
Everyone has a smile on their face!
Free at last! Free at last!
Thank the stars and garters we are free at last!

Tangle still doesn't get it:

Isn't that just blindingly obvious?

But it's the difference between INVADING Russia VERSUS defending yourself from a Russian INVASION. I can see Percy's point and you can and do, too, but you never come out and say it. Sorry to put my foot in the door.

Tangle claims

Once an aggressor has invaded there is no difference!

Well, to put it politely, BULLFUCKING SHIT!!!

You are DEAD WRONG there, my friend. You even used the term "aggressor", so you know the difference.

Edited by xongsmith, : name misspelled

Tangle continues:

er, how can the unprovoked invasion of a sovereign independent nation, not be done by an 'aggressor'?

Correctimondo! Russia INVADED Ukraine, not the other way around. When you write NATO must ATTACK Russia in the case of NATO's Rule 5, most of the English-speaking world sees that as "NATO must INVADE Russia", not "DEFEND the country ATTACKED".

In Message 477 you write

If Russia invaded Estonia NATO would be forced to attack Russia.

just change that to:

If Russia invaded Estonia NATO would be forced to defend Estonia.

The main difference is that war crimes are not used when defending a country, but bombing hospitals and other innocent civilians can be part of being the aggressor. See Hitler, see our travesty of Vietnam, Cambodia and so on.

Yes, it is semantics. But they are VERY important here. Right now it is important that the whole world sees Putin as an evil man and any sins cast upon Ukraine will compromise that effort.

And I am sorry I got dragged into this mud-slinging....

Edited by xongsmith, : No reason given.

Edited by xongsmith, : oh well...

Tanypterix asks

Why the fuck are you guys arguing about this inane bullshit?

because, as I said in Message 558

Yes, it is semantics. But they are VERY important here. Right now it is important that the whole world sees Putin as an evil man and any sins cast upon Ukraine will compromise that effort.

and i also said in that reply

The main difference is that war crimes are not used when defending a country, but bombing hospitals and other innocent civilians can be part of being the aggressor. See Hitler, see our travesty of Vietnam, Cambodia and so on.

- which is where my sins cast upon one side or the other came from.

Tanypteryx writes:

OK, but standing off to the side watching, you guys all seem to agree on all the principals at play here regarding Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Except how NATO will respond to an attack against a member state.

Well, I would hope that the US and all of NATO would be united in defending Ukraine here, even if they are not an official NATO member yet, same as if they were Estonia or even Poland.

A problem would be how to counter the lies Putin has been telling his people via his news media. It is difficult to convince people they've been lied to. That is another reason for using language carefully here or anywhere.

r/ukraine - Belgian cartoon about the Moskva. Title: Russian version of 'Battleship' boardgame, Zelensky: B4! Putin: just accidental fire on my battleship... (credit Lectrr)

[ Put image directly in the message. --Admin ]

Edited by Admin, : Add image.

didn't we see Zilensky(sp) already say that they were releasing early
propaganda numbers and when it's over they'll release the real numbers?

when it was something like 19,000 dead Russians to 2,900 Ukranians?

he said it was to keep their morale up.