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Author | Topic: The War in Europe | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8706 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.0
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If there were a possibility that(a) God's character was Jesus Christ and there was an invitation from such a Being, how would you react? Come on in, have a seat. Take your shoes off. Wine or something? Let's talk ... no, not talk. You sit and listen to me rant, you bloody stinkin' evil scumbag! I'm glad you didn't invite me. I'm in no mood to be civil. Edited by AZPaul3, . “There’s simply no polite way to tell people they’ve dedicated their lives to an illusion,” -Daniel Dennett Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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dwise1 Member Posts: 6183 Joined: Member Rating: 5.5
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If there were a possibility that(a) God's character was Jesus Christ and there was an invitation from such a Being, how would you react? So show me already. Include evidence that it wasn't due to my having eaten a bad burrito! Here's a call-in to Atheist Community of Austin (ACA) from a theist who says that they almost deconverted him until the Holy Ghost spoke to him:
YOUTUBE (would not embed) -- "The ACA ALMOST Deconverted Me!", https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvzBFlt0JJw
When asked about that experience, he was very vague and became increasingly evasive; not even Archimedes could pry it out of him. Then a panel member describes how the Bible describes the experience of being visited by the Holy Ghost (extremely difficult to not notice it when it happens) and it was nothing like what the caller described (kind of a vague feeling, more of a conclusion after the fact than an experience). Also consider the experiences with a demon that both my high school friend's mother and my ex-wife's brother, both fundamentalist Christians with Chuck Smith's Calvary Chapel of Costa Mesa (the "mothership" of that franchise), had. They had been napping when they "woke up" "experiencing" a demon holding them down keeping them paralyzed and unable to speak despite their desperate attempts to scream for help. Instead, that was simply a case of Sleep paralysis, a common state of shallow sleep in which we are highly suggestible as well as being paralyzed to keep us from acting out our dream:
quote: When we observe that in sleeping dogs, we ascribe it to dreaming about chasing rabbits instead of them having a personal experience with DOG. So how do we ensure that we are not just dreaming it? Especially if we are also under the influence of a bad burrito. Also, I was talking about evidence and about how you construct surrogates (made-up substitutes for the Real Thing, which you assume exists whether it actually does or not -- old popular truism: "When you ASSUME you make an ASS of U and ME.") And all you can come up with is a stupid ghost story? So what would you do if Lord Krishna were to appear to you? Or the Buddha were to appear to you in order to warn you away from believing in the gods since that will only keep you from gaining Enlightenment? So instead of addressing the ideas presented, you post really stupid nonsense that avoid the subject. And then you have the gall to wonder why nobody can ever take anything you say seriously? Really? There are so many things that might be possible, which is why we need some kind of evidence so that we can hold onto the more evidenced things and no longer have to bother ourselves with the unevidenced things. Yet again (obviously for the others, not for you since everything just flies high over your head) here's that Carl Sagan story yet again:
quote: And if you think that you do have evidence for "God", then compare it with what callers to an atheist show present (and fail miserably):
YOUTUBE Search Page -- https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=atheist+expe...
The founder of a local skeptics group has a personal policy for his own ideas: he actively seeks out people who can disprove them. Like in Sagan's story and in the practice of science, when you come up with an idea you then need to disprove it. That's what all the testing in science is about. Instead of trying to prove your ideas, you see whether it can survive repeated testing. Science works by eliminating the ideas that don't work. Here's the accepted definition for a scientific theory:
quote: Or more expansively:
quote: In sharp contrast is how apologists go about their business. They "already have the truth" so instead of trying to learn anything new, they work unflaggingly to reject or corrupt any evidence that would disprove their "truth", even going so far as to fabricate false "evidences" in their ongoing campaign to deceive everyone, most importantly themselves. We observe you following the path of apologists. Not a good look. Now to wait and see how much you ignore this time and what you choose to completely misconstrue. Edited by dwise1, : A few slight cleanups
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Phat Member Posts: 18706 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.1
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dwise1 writes: I read everything that you posted. Im not consciously trying to ignore your arguments. They are well founded. My only question to you is what you would try to ignore and what you would question if you someday came across something that stood out from your other research. Do you have all of your conclusions and judgements based upon successful falsification? If so, it will take a lot to get you to question the foregone science. In sharp contrast is how apologists go about their business. They "already have the truth" so instead of trying to learn anything new, they work unflaggingly to reject or corrupt any evidence that would disprove their "truth", even going so far as to fabricate false "evidences" in their ongoing campaign to deceive everyone, most importantly themselves. We observe you following the path of apologists. Not a good look. Now to wait and see how much you ignore this time and what you choose to completely misconstrue. When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat
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Phat Member Posts: 18706 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
The question is not designed to be a relativistic question. The answer is not multiple choice. That is the mistake so many make.
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat
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Taq Member Posts: 10384 Joined: Member Rating: 5.7 |
Phat writes: The question is not designed to be a relativistic question. The answer is not multiple choice. That is the mistake so many make. It would have been a lot easier to agree that your views on religion are biased towards your own vies and hypocritical when it comes to other religions.
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Phat Member Posts: 18706 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
It would have been a lot easier to agree that your views on religion are biased towards your own views and hypocritical when it comes to other religions. I agree. That's the line in the sand in today's world. From my perspective, anyway. What do you see as the sticking point from your perspective?When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat
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Percy Member Posts: 23128 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.8 |
Phat writes in Message 1251: It would have been a lot easier to agree that your views on religion are biased towards your own views and hypocritical when it comes to other religions. I agree. That's the line in the sand in today's world. From my perspective, anyway. What do you see as the sticking point from your perspective? Uh, aren't you guys now in agreement on this? Taq in effect said the sticking point was your hypocrisy, and you agreed that this was the sticking point. Moving forward only requires that you cease your hypocrisy. --Percy
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Adminnemooseus Administrator Posts: 3987 Joined: |
Topic? Topic? Has anyone detected anything related to topic recently?
Adminnemooseus Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Add subtitle. Or something like that©.
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Phat Member Posts: 18706 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
OK, Moose, I will return to the topic. The topic is the war in Europe, specifically Ukraine.
Religious hypocrisy, Geopolitical disagreements on funding, purpose, and solutions will take a back seat. Lets see what the media says:
Five killed in strike on Russia's Kursk after deadly missile attack on Kyivquote:And... Don't underestimate North Korean troops in Russia, ex-soldiers tell BBC The takeaway that I saw in this article was the stark malnourished condition of so many soldiers in these wars in the modern world. I see the makings of a global revolution. Many soldiers from North Korea will be exposed to the life outside of North Korea and it will affect them. From what I understand, South Korea is also undergoing a bit of a revolution lately. Protesters jubilant as South Korea President Yoon's impeached The world is more connected yet more fragmented than ever before.When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat
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Percy Member Posts: 23128 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.8 |
Phat writes in Message 1254: OK, Moose, I will return to the topic. You're drawing multiple threads off topic. In the Stogumber thread about democracies sliding into authoritarianism you're also posting about religion. You opened the What Is An Elitist? thread to take shots at your fellow members, then added defending conservative conspiracy theory spinning.
The topic is the war in Europe, specifically Ukraine. Religious hypocrisy, Geopolitical disagreements on funding, purpose, and solutions will take a back seat. Everything after "religious hypocrisy" is on-topic, and even that is on-topic in the way it was recently framed in another thread, as an effective motivator for war. For example, half of America thinks we're a Christian nation, and for many of them that makes any war America engages in a holy war sanctioned by God to defend Christianity. In an analogous way there is a religious element to the war in Ukraine.
And...
Don't underestimate North Korean troops in Russia, ex-soldiers tell BBC The takeaway that I saw in this article was the stark malnourished condition of so many soldiers in these wars in the modern world. I see the makings of a global revolution. Many soldiers from North Korea will be exposed to the life outside of North Korea and it will affect them. From what I understand, South Korea is also undergoing a bit of a revolution lately. Protesters jubilant as South Korea President Yoon's impeached The world is more connected yet more fragmented than ever before. Even in a post responding to a request to stay on topic you can't stay on topic. --Percy
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Phat Member Posts: 18706 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
Percy writes: I read your link and I agree that there is a definite religious element to war in general. Democracy and Christianity go hand in hand, after all. If Democracy became anything other than Christian, it would have become the enemy after all. [/tongue-in-cheek] For example, half of America thinks we're a Christian nation, and for many of them that makes any war America engages in a holy war sanctioned by God to defend Christianity. In an analogous way there is a religious element to the war in Ukraine.When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat
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Percy Member Posts: 23128 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.8
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Phat writes: Democracy and Christianity go hand in hand, after all. No, they don't. I can't imagine why you said this. But the main point was not to discuss religion and systems of government but to note your strong tendency to take threads off-topic. Something on-topic might be to what degree Trump will continue to support Ukraine in its efforts to resist the Russian invasion. --Percy
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Phat Member Posts: 18706 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
Russia-Ukraine war: List of key events, day 1,043
AlJazeera writes: Percy writes: The sticking point is my bias. I see it as a deeply held belief. I won't easily cease that!
Taq in effect said the sticking point was your hypocrisy, and you agreed that this was the sticking point. Moving forward only requires that you cease your hypocrisy. Percy writes: I read where Russia has so far rejected any Trump proposals for settling the conflict.
Something on-topic might be to what degree Trump will continue to support Ukraine in its efforts to resist the Russian invasion.Why has Russia rejected Trump’s Ukraine truce plan? AlJazeera writes: Trump has been careful not to reveal much about his plan. “I can’t give you those plans because if I give you those plans, I’m not going to be able to use them. They’ll be unsuccessful. Part of it’s surprise,” Trump said in a podcast interview with Lex Fridman in September.(...)On the campaign trail, Trump made promises of ending the Ukraine war within 24 hours. However, on December 12, he told Time magazine that “the Middle East is an easier problem to handle than what’s happening with Russia and Ukraine.” I think that Trump has a better chance of brokering a peace favorable to both sides, though the jury is still out on that until after January 20th.When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat
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