Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 65 (9077 total)
103 online now:
Michael MD, PaulK, Tangle (3 members, 100 visitors)
Newest Member: Contrarian
Post Volume: Total: 893,979 Year: 5,091/6,534 Month: 511/794 Week: 2/135 Day: 2/19 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Light Time Problem
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3340
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 6 of 254 (893463)
04-14-2022 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by candle2
04-14-2022 10:29 AM


Fiction.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by candle2, posted 04-14-2022 10:29 AM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by AZPaul3, posted 04-14-2022 12:01 PM Tanypteryx has replied
 Message 12 by candle2, posted 04-15-2022 10:25 AM Tanypteryx has taken no action

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3340
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 8 of 254 (893466)
04-14-2022 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by AZPaul3
04-14-2022 12:01 PM


Re: No Light-Time Problem
Yeah, dinosaurs and man is a good one. Delusion, winning new hearts and minds all the time.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by AZPaul3, posted 04-14-2022 12:01 PM AZPaul3 has taken no action

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3340
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 17 of 254 (893528)
04-15-2022 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by candle2
04-15-2022 6:52 PM


Re: No Light-Time Problem
No one would trust you, you think a supremely intelligent being created you. That is delusional.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by candle2, posted 04-15-2022 6:52 PM candle2 has taken no action

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3340
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 19 of 254 (893530)
04-15-2022 7:50 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by candle2
04-15-2022 7:46 PM


Fiction.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by candle2, posted 04-15-2022 7:46 PM candle2 has taken no action

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3340
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 24 of 254 (893542)
04-16-2022 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by candle2
04-15-2022 7:46 PM


This is a science forum, not a religious bullshit forum.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by candle2, posted 04-15-2022 7:46 PM candle2 has taken no action

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3340
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


(4)
Message 26 of 254 (893553)
04-16-2022 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by candle2
04-16-2022 1:08 PM


Among their numerous fakes and forgeries are:

Piltdown man;
Archaeoraptor;
Hackel's embryo illustrations, which was offered as
scientific evidence.
Nebraska man, which turned out to be a pig.
Peppered Moths. Both dark and light specimens
have always existed simultaneously. Neither
rest on tree trunks during daylight, and they only
fly at night.
Etc......

That's a pretty short list, of course the Peppered Moth was never a hoax and you have misstated the science about them. Nebraska Man is a favorite creationist hoax, included on the list because they can find so few scientific frauds, compared to creationist frauds.

The others were all exposed and corrected by, yep you missed it, evolutionary biologists.

That you trot out this pathetic list displays your ignorance and dishonesty as Jar noted earlier.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by candle2, posted 04-16-2022 1:08 PM candle2 has taken no action

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3340
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 32 of 254 (893561)
04-16-2022 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Tangle
04-16-2022 1:59 PM


Tangle writes:

Wow, 5 frauds in 200 years. (At least 2 of which are not frauds). Evolutionary biologists must be the most honest profession in the world.

Hey don't forget there was an Etc...... too!

Candy2 writes:

Etc......


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Tangle, posted 04-16-2022 1:59 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Tangle, posted 04-16-2022 2:54 PM Tanypteryx has taken no action

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3340
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 35 of 254 (893566)
04-16-2022 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by candle2
04-16-2022 2:35 PM


candy2 writes:

Look dwise don't insult my intelligence

We already know nothing could insult your intelligence.

candy2 writes:

with radiocarbon dating crap. It is extremely unreliable.General speaking, the results are manipulated
to obtain the expected age. Deny all you
want, but we both know this is true.

Well that would be silly, then we would give actual frauds for creationists to point to instead of completely known and documented lies from creationists.

candy2 writes:

In some instances the head and the tail of the
same fossils have been dated as much as
20,000 years between.

I bet you cannot ever document a single instance of this result, let alone multiple instances.

candy2 writes:

Also, fossils are dated by the strata that they
are found in, and the strata is dated by the
fossils they contain.

Wow, it has been noticed that certain fossils are found in certain strata and not in others. What a scandal!

candy2 writes:

There is absolutely nothing that supports
evolution.

Absolutely nothing you have written supports your position.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by candle2, posted 04-16-2022 2:35 PM candle2 has taken no action

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3340
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 51 of 254 (893612)
04-17-2022 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by candle2
04-17-2022 12:51 PM


candy2 writes:

I have been adamant about how life started.
I've laid it out there.

All based on a poorly written book of fiction.

candy2 writes:

Now, you tell me how life started. And don't say
that this has nothing to do with evolution.

Chemistry.

candy2 writes:

Either prove that life came from non-living
matter, or that it was created.

Life still comes from non-living matter.

candy2 writes:

If you say that life began by chance, then
I challenge you to prove how this happened.
I challenge you to replicate it.

Once again chemistry, not chance.

candle2 writes:

If you say that life was by design, then
I challenge you to prove that it was not the
God of the Bible who created it.

There's no evidence that life was by design.

candy2 writes:

Where are all the transitional fossils?
There must, by all reasonable standards,
be hundreds of millions of them.

How would you know what "ALL" reasonable standards for fossils are?

We have museums with tens of thousands of intermediate fossils. New ones are reported monthly in dozens of scientific journals.

candy2 writes:

Why should science be restricted to naturalistic
causes rather than logical ones?

Science is a method of analyzing and understanding the nature of the Universe based on observation and evidence. Logic is a way of thinking that may or may not involve reality.

candy2 writes:

Can you explain In a step-by-step procedure
How the flagellum motor came to be? How
about the eye? Or the enormous complexities
of blood clotting?

Nope, I can't, but scientist who study these subjects are revealing more and more about the molecular processes involved. They can describe what they have learned so far, but you would not understand it.

candy2 writes:

Name me all the scientific breakthroughs due
to evolution?

Far too many to name here, but basically all of modern medicine and agriculture, as opposed to zero scientific breakthroughs due to the bible.

candy2 writes:

Why do evolutionists place more importance on
ridiculous theories than they do on operational/
observable science?

Oh, that's an easy one, they don't place any importance on ridiculous theories. Operational science is just something you made up.

candy2 writes:

What has been observed during all recorded
history is that one kind of animal always
reproduces the same kind of animal.

Evolution does not dispute that.

cany2 writes:

This is called operational science, and it has
been replicated trillions of times.

No it's not. It's just you making some obvious statements without any scientific investigation what so ever.

candy2 writes:

It is impossible to replicate this mumbo-jumbo
nonsense you dish out.

I didn't notice Jar dishing out anything, but we all know mumbo-jumbo is the easiest thing of all to replicate, just make up shit and repeat it, exactly like you do.

Nice Gish Gallop, by the way.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by candle2, posted 04-17-2022 12:51 PM candle2 has taken no action

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3340
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


(2)
Message 62 of 254 (893683)
04-18-2022 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by candle2
04-18-2022 9:39 AM


In addition, I would like to see the theory
of evolution stop being taught as fact, when
It takes much more faith to believe in
evolution than it does in creation.

Well, you might be right that it would take more faith to believe in evolution, except for one thing, evidence.

When we say we have libraries and museums full of evidence we are not just making it up. They really exist, you can look at the evidence yourself and read what has been found.

Scientist in dozens of fields discover and report what they find, and you can read it. You can hold it in your hands. You can study it.

One interesting thing (at least to me) is that as you study this field you you suddenly see how discoveries are connected and this happens over and over.

Scientists do not know one percent of
all there is to know about the universe
and everything contained in it.

In other words, We are extremely primitive.
Don't pretend otherwise.

I don't think we can quantify what we don't know, but yep, every time we discover something it makes us realize that there is a lot left to learn.

Science is a systematic way to study things and learn about the Universe.

Science and scientist don't claim we know everything, but we are trying to study and learn about everything.

You seem to be saying that since we don't know everything, we don't know anything, or that we should not be honest and tell you what we have learned so far.

We have a lot to learn still, but we have learned a lot about biology and how it works and how life evolves.

First of all, I do have cataracts, and
the left eye is scheduled to be operated
on a week from today. The right eye is
Two week from the left.

My wife had cataract surgery in October, She started out thinking she would get the most expensive lenses, but found that lots of people had problems with halos, especially at night. There were problems with the next less expensive ones also. She ended up getting the basic lenses that have a long track record of working well. She has to use glasses for reading or close work, but she is happy with her results so far.


Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by candle2, posted 04-18-2022 9:39 AM candle2 has taken no action

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3340
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 67 of 254 (893773)
04-19-2022 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by candle2
04-19-2022 5:30 PM


I know dwise will provide a more detailed response, but I just have a couple comments and questions.

Here is your basic problem candle, the theory of evolution agrees with what you just wrote.

candle2 writes:

My empirical evidence is being produced
everyday. I take great pride in the fact
(and it is indeed a fact) that human
mother's produce human babies, and
that oak trees produce oak trees. Etc...

In fact, I boldly predict with 100% certainly
that next week; next month; next year; and
next century (if we are still going) that human
mother's will still be producing human babies.

You're have a big old fight and blustering about something that the theory of evolution does not say!

You may think it says something different, but you are wrong.

Can you show us a single scientific source that says that the theory of evolution says the opposite of what you said in those 2 paragraphs?

You are making big claims, let's see your evidence.

I don't see what relevance the rest of post has on the subject so I will leave that to dwise and the others.


Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by candle2, posted 04-19-2022 5:30 PM candle2 has taken no action

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3340
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 78 of 254 (893815)
04-20-2022 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by candle2
04-19-2022 5:30 PM


candy2 writes:

Are you aware that diamonds can be created
in the lab in just a couple of months? There is
no need to waitillions of years.

Are you aware that diamonds can also be created deep in the Earth with lots of heat and pressure over millions of years?

Are you aware that there are approximately 2,000,000 described and named insects, and that estimates by entomologists are that there may be 10-20 million more species of insects to describe?

candy2 writes:

Oil can be produced in minutes with a little
algae and water. Again, no need to wait
millions of years for a can of it.

Are you aware that it would take billions of algae cells to make a single quart of oil?

Are you aware that it is now estimated that 50% of all insects species are microscopic parasitic wasps that just a few years ago we didn't even know existed?

Are you aware that over 3,000,000,000 sets
(Pairs) of genetic letters make up the human
genome? Or that each human has more than
10 billion miles of DNA?

Are you aware that there are no letters whatsoever in the human genome? There are however approximately 3 billion nucleotides in the human genome and we just use letters to designate them. And it is nowhere near 10 billion miles long.

Are you aware that if those millions of species of parasitic wasps hadn't evolved we would be neck deep in insect pests? And are you aware that we can actually map out the evolutionary relationships between all those millions of species of insects by mapping their genomes?

candy2 writes:

Evolutionary systems are expected to increase
in order and complexity. However, no exception
to the 2nd Law has ever been found.

This is incorrect, there is no expectation that evolutionary systems are expected to increase in order or complexity. And the 2nd law of thermodynamics is perfectly fine with energy being added to the biological system by the Sun.

Are you aware of what the laws of thermodynamics say and mean?

candy2 writes:

Not one person who has ever lived, except
you--has been an eye witness to macro-
evolution.

There is no such separate process of evolution called macroevolution. Macroevolution is just lots of generation to generation microevolution.

No one who has ever lived has witnessed any act of divine creation.

Are you aware that over the past 400 million years insects have been the major selective force directing the evolution of land plants and that as a consequence of that they have been a major selective force in the evolution of land vertebrates, including humans?

You should be worshipping insects as the god that created humans.


Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by candle2, posted 04-19-2022 5:30 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by candle2, posted 04-21-2022 1:37 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3340
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 96 of 254 (893876)
04-21-2022 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by candle2
04-21-2022 1:37 PM


candy2 writes:

Tanyptery, my point is that it does not take
tens or hundreds of millions of years to create
either diamonds or oil.

Your point is not evidence that it does not take millions of years to produce natural diamonds and oil.

candy2 writes:

You say that there might be 20,000,000 or
more species of insects. Well, I would say
that this favors a creationist's point of view.

Well, you would only say that because you have never studied biology or entomology.

candy2 writes:

As I have already stated, no human has every
witnessed macro-evolution. Yet, you want us
to believe that this has (including all
intermediate steps) happened more than
100,000,000 times in the insect kingdom alone.

No, as I already stated, there is no such process as macro-evolution. There is just lots and lots of micro-evolution. And there is also no such thing as the insect kingdom and I have no desires for you to believe anything.

candy2 writes:

It is much more likely that an all-knowing God
created them, each having a design purpose.

And yet, no evidence has ever been shown to support that myth, while all the evidence supports the Theory of Evolution.

candy2 writes:

Again, I have no problem with people believing
in evolution. That is their God-given right. My
issue is with them preaching that it is a proven
fact. And, I have an issue with spending tax
money to teach these fairytales to kids.

Yeah, but you'll be one of the first people bitching because tax funded entomologists have not figured out how to stop infestations of invasive species destroying our orchards, or forests or crops, because YOU didn't want your taxes teaching them science.

candy2 writes:

Did you hear about the frog who became a prince?

Are you serious?

Edited by Tanypteryx, : No reason given.

Edited by Tanypteryx, : No reason given.


Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by candle2, posted 04-21-2022 1:37 PM candle2 has taken no action

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3340
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 97 of 254 (893877)
04-21-2022 6:36 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by AZPaul3
04-21-2022 6:26 PM


AZPaul3 writes:

candy2 writes:

He knew that I wasn't fooled, so he leveled with
me. He didn't believe in evolution, but he kept
this information to himself.

Apocryphal bullshit. I don't believe you.

At least he didn't tell us he used to be an evolutionist and an atheist...


Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by AZPaul3, posted 04-21-2022 6:26 PM AZPaul3 has taken no action

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3340
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 99 of 254 (893881)
04-21-2022 7:39 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by candle2
04-21-2022 6:19 PM


candy2 writes:

Those who speak out against evolution, and now
"Climate change" could find themselves looking
for a new job.

Any biologist who denies all the evidence supports evolution should be fired.

Any climatologist who denies that the evidence supports human caused global warming should be fired.

More to the point, why would someone want a job as a biologist if they didn't think evolution works?

Why would anyone be working as a climatologist if they didn't think the climate is changing?

You don't take jobs like that unless you are a science nerd.

candy2 writes:

College should be a place where people can
exchange ideas, but certain ideas are taboo.

I don't know about taboo, but I do not support colleges promoting disinformation, misinformation or false information. Information unsupported by evidence should not be presented as facts.

Not all opinions deserve a stage.

In general, the people I see trying to make opposing or fact based views taboo, are you guys.

All that stuff about the ark is made up fiction that has no relevance in a discussion about evolution in a science thread.

Edited by Tanypteryx, : No reason given.


Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by candle2, posted 04-21-2022 6:19 PM candle2 has taken no action

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.1
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2022