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Author Topic:   Choosing a faith
ICANT
Member (Idle past 107 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 3616 of 3731 (914772)
02-01-2024 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 3615 by candle2
02-01-2024 8:43 AM


Re: Candle is lit by Armstrongism...not the Bible.
Hi C2,
[qs=C2]Your hero has texted many verses in an attempt to show
that Christians are not asked to observe God's 10
Commandments. And, you and your hero think it is a
sin to lead a life of "good works."
I would never say murder is OK.
Where do you get the Idea I don't believe in good works.
I said I am a gentile and have never been under the Law given to Moses and the children of Isarel.
Show me one place in the Bible that states such a thing.
Do you observe the law of the burnt offering?
Do you observe the law of the meat offering?
Do you observe the law of the sin offering?
Do you observe the law of the trespass offering?
Jesus came to do something you could not do. He fulfilled the law.
Jesus says writes:
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
quote:
John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
Since Jesus came to fulfill the law that job was finished and now the law given to Moses was not in effect as He had provided a New Covenant of grace.
If you do not accept God's grace for your sacrifice you will not see the Kingdom of God must less enter it.
Jesus says writes:
John 3:3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Jesus writes:
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That is what Jesus said, I just copied and pasted it.
Jesus was speaking to a Pharisee who kept the law and had a temple he could go to and offer his sacrifices. But that was not good enough anymore.
You don't have a temple you can go to and offer your sacrifices which God would not accept anyway since He has offered Himself a sacrifice for sin.
You are a hard core Pharisee and you have got to accept God's sacrifice through His grace and be born again if you want to go to heaven and that goes for anybody who has not been born again
You can not get to heaven on your good works which is what you are trying to do.
Paul to the Church at writes:
2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
In this age you can not earn your salvation as it is the gift of God. Why do you want to make it so hard to be saved when God made it so easy.
But after you are saved you are created a new person unto good works.
You are trying to work your way to heaven.
I do good works because I am going to heaven, and like I said before I will compare my good works to yours any day you want to send me an email we can get started as there is no room for bragging about either of our good works here. It is to be between you and me. I gave you my email up thread and it is available
in my profile as well.
What Paul says about the law to the church.
Paul writes:
Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
In verse 13 Paul is telling the born again Jews who had been dead to God had been quickened (made alive) through Jesus had all their trespasses forgiven.
In verse 14 he tells them the law had been blotted out by Jesus nailing it to the tree.
Because of that they were not to let anybody including candle2 to tell what they could eat or drink or in observing a holyday or of the sabbath days.
You can't keep any of the laws concerning the sacrifices as you have no temple to go to or priest to offer them. The temple has not existed since 70AD.
Now if you can live long enough for the anti-christ to come he will make a pack with Israel and the temple will be rebuilt and the sacrifices restored.
My personal opinion about the anti-christ is that he will be the devil in a human body duplicating what Jesus did. As I said this is my personal belief.
You sure are working hard for him.
C2 writes:
Jesus says in numerous verses that those who love Him
will keep His Commandments; furthermore, He states
that His Commandments are not grievous or
burdensome.
I believe that and practice both laws that He gave. I have quoted them for you several times so I won't do it here.
You can look on the left side of the screen in my post and there is place that says ICANT POSTS ONLY click on that and it will give you all the posts I have posted in this thread just scroll back up until you find them. You can also find the 30+ posts I made to you that you never read or answered.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3615 by candle2, posted 02-01-2024 8:43 AM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3623 by candle2, posted 02-06-2024 8:05 AM ICANT has not replied
 Message 3624 by candle2, posted 02-06-2024 10:45 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 3626 by candle2, posted 02-07-2024 12:00 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 3627 by candle2, posted 02-08-2024 9:51 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 3629 by candle2, posted 02-08-2024 3:07 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied
 Message 3630 by candle2, posted 02-10-2024 8:04 AM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 107 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 3617 of 3731 (914773)
02-01-2024 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 3614 by dwise1
02-01-2024 4:35 AM


Re: By Definition
Hi wise1,
dwise1 writes:
And yet you know that is not the case,
I quote from the Hebrew, Greek, and KJV Bibles. None of them are perfect but the ones I use are the best available at present. The KJV is the best English translation we have at the present. But I only have to look to Genesis1:2 to find the first two translation mistakes and 1:5 has the third. are there more yes many more. The bad part about the later versions is they copied some of the same mistakes plus making their own.
But you tell me a short cut to come to the conclusion of what the truth is if I just study one book? I have studied them all that I have and some that I don't own.
dwise1 writes:
So who is right? In a universe where no supernatural claim can be tested, verified, or confirmed in any manner possible, then which supernatural claim could possibly be known to be true?
I have laid out many reasons upthread as to why I believe what I do and I am sincere that the evidence I have has led me to the right source. But I will be the first to tell you that I may be sincerely wrong.
But the devil is a sly old fox and he may have pulled the wool over my eyes and hid the truth from me.
I pray every day and night that God will lead me in all truth and I am dependent on Him to do that. That is as far as I can humanly go.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3614 by dwise1, posted 02-01-2024 4:35 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 107 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 3618 of 3731 (914774)
02-01-2024 6:53 PM
Reply to: Message 3614 by dwise1
02-01-2024 4:35 AM


Re: By Definition
Hi wise1,
I didn't know you wanted me to comment on your Greek expertise.
f ευδοξια eudokía comes from two Greek words εὖ a adverb and a verb δοκέω
and is a feminine noun and means good will, kindly intent, benevolence
The adverb εὖ means 1. to be well off, fare well, prosper 2. acting well
The verb δοκέω means 1.to be of opinion, think, suppose
2. to seem, to be accounted, reputed
How would you suggest εὐδοκία be translated?
εὐδοκία Is in the Bible 9 times
It is translated:
good pleasure 4 times
good will 2 times
seem good when preceded by γίνομαι 2 times
desire 1 time
Shucks there I went down a rabbit hole.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3614 by dwise1, posted 02-01-2024 4:35 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3620 by dwise1, posted 02-01-2024 7:36 PM ICANT has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5969
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 3619 of 3731 (914775)
02-01-2024 7:23 PM
Reply to: Message 3609 by ICANT
01-31-2024 6:57 PM


Re: Candle is lit by Armstrongism...not the Bible.
I would disagree about candle2 being a true christian.
Jessica H. Christ! Are you really as bad as candle2 in his inability to understand what he's reading?
Even though you went so far as to quote me (though without understanding), let me quote myself for your hopeful edification (with emphasis added):
dwise1 writes:
For myself, it's not Christian doctrine itself that I would find vapid, but rather the behavior of most Christians, especially "true Christians" (a sarcastic term I coined for the extreme self-righteous types, especially the hypocrites who profess Christian doctrine and try to force it on others while ignoring it themselves) who give Christianity such a bad name. candle2 is definitely a "true Christian."
Did you not see the quotation marks that time? I even included an explanation of the term RIGHT THERE and you completely missed it? Is there anything I could do to make them more obvious to you when I talk about those stupid sanctimonious hypocritical "true Christian" assholes?
The term for that is scare quotes, which Wikipedia describes thus:
Wikipedia:
Scare quotes (also called shudder quotes, sneer quotes, and quibble marks) are quotation marks that writers place around a word or phrase to signal that they are using it in an ironic, referential, or otherwise non-standard sense. Scare quotes may indicate that the author is using someone else's term, similar to preceding a phrase with the expression "so-called"; they may imply skepticism or disagreement, belief that the words are misused, or that the writer intends a meaning opposite to the words enclosed in quotes. Whether quotation marks are considered scare quotes depends on context because scare quotes are not visually different from actual quotations. The use of scare quotes is sometimes discouraged in formal or academic writing.
. . .
Usage
Writers use scare quotes for a variety of reasons. They can imply doubt or ambiguity in words or ideas within the marks, or even outright contempt. They can indicate that a writer is purposely misusing a word or phrase or that the writer is unpersuaded by the text in quotes, and they can help the writer deny responsibility for the quote. Megan Garber in The Atlantic writes: "to put terms like 'identity politics' or 'rape culture' or, yes, 'alt-right' in scare quotes is ... to make, in that placement, a political declaration." In general, the punctuation expresses distance between the writer and the quote.
For example:
Some "groupies" were following the band.
The scare quotes could indicate that the word is not one the writer would normally use, or that the writer thinks there is something dubious about the word groupies or its application to these people. The exact meaning of the scare quotes is not clear without further context.
To spell it out for you, I based that term (which I always write with scare quotes) on those "true Christians'" own words in which they describe themselves as true Christians while all other Christians whose doctrines do not match their own exactly (or at least differing in minor points to which they attach exaggerated importance) are "false" or "fake" Christians, or else are not considered to be Christian at all (eg, fundies' attitudes towards Catholics or Mormons).
And as I described briefly in your quote of me which you had not bothered to read, those "true Christians" are typically self-righteous, usually extremely so, and are driven to impose their religion on all others even to the point of using the government (eg, Christian Nationalists (formerly Christian Reconstructionists, Dominionists, etc), the anti-abortion movement, school prayer advocates). They are also typically hypocritical, as I wrote: "especially the hypocrites who profess Christian doctrine and try to force it on others while ignoring it themselves" (creationists' love of lying comes immediately to mind, hence my question in Message 3581 that you tried to evade).
Hence the term, "true Christian", was coined to be ironic in that they set themselves up as being the only true Christians while everybody else can clearly see that the characteristics they display are decidedly unchristian. Here is a video of talk-radio host John Fugelsang as a panel guest on MSNBC delivering the same message he's been presenting on the air for years, but this time to a far wider audience who's hearing it for the first time:
On radio, his long-standing (and still unanswered) challenge to these Republicans who self-identify as Christian is for them to name a single Republican policy they support that agrees with and does not directly conflict with Christian values, with the teachings of Jesus.
In addition, I will point out that school prayer in government schools (AKA public schools) violates Jesus' teaching against the hypocrisy of public displays of prayer (Matthew 6:5). Yet despite opposing Jesus' teachings, "true Christians" continue to push for inserting religion in public schools, obviously not for religious purposes but rather in order to use government to impose their religion on others against their will. In 1985, there was an ongoing battle in the local newspaper's editorial page, so I wrote this letter to the editor, The nation's better off without school-prayer laws. After it was published, school prayer was not mentioned again until two years later. A few years later, I wrote this letter, Posting The Ten Commandments, in response to that "true Christian" agenda item still being pushed.
And to pile the irony on even more, different groups of "true Christians" consider the other "true Christians" to be fake Christians, usually vehemently so. Indeed, I was surprised when a fundamentalist acquaintance informed me that each fundamentalist sect rejects the other fundamentalist sects; while we normals cannot distinguish any difference between them, members of those sects become very indignant and demand, "Don't you dare group us with those apostates!"
So then candle2 is indeed definitely a "true Christian". And you are proving yourself to be one as well.
candle2 does not even qualify as a true Pharisee .
My exposure to Pharisees was Pharisee Head Rabbi Hillel who, circa 20 BCE, taught the spirit of the Law instead the letter of the Law (the opposite of how Christians misrepresent the Pharisees). From the well-known story of the Gentile troll (even mentioned in the Star Trek: TOS episode, "Dagger of the Mind"):
Rabbi Hillel:
"That which is hateful to you, do not do unto your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."
Indeed, it is the "true Christians" whose misconduct matches almost exactly what they accuse the Pharisees of, obviously projecting their own failings in the same manner that MAGAt Republicans project their own malfeasance onto their opponents.
Therefore, candle2 is indeed a "true Christian" and also fits the Christian mischaracterization of Pharisees in the same manner that other "true Christians" typically do.
[Genetically Modified Skeptic] I watched the video and he never mention that he was born again so I am not surprised that he turned out the way he did.
That's all you got out of it? Not how his "true Christian" church conflicted the Christian Doctrine? How very sad.
Is the term, born again, even currently used? In 1970 being "born again" was all the fashion and in 1976 President Jimmy Carter was widely identified as being born again, but it's been a long time since I've heard it being used. Is it out of fashion? Is it being called something else now? Are you just being old-fashioned, like I am in my refusal to use the subjective case with a preposition (eg, "between you and I" instead of the correct "between you and me")? Or like some old guy referring to a person as a "computer" (refer to the movie, Hidden Figures)?
He does immediately identify his upbringing as "evangelical", which is the current euphemism for "fundamentalist" (where have you seen "fundamentalist" used except by an old fart like me?). Being "born again" is part and parcel of being a fundie ... er, "evangelical". If that particular old term, born again, is no longer in fashion, why should you expect a young kid to use it?
Your rejection of his testimonial is itself rejected.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3609 by ICANT, posted 01-31-2024 6:57 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3622 by ICANT, posted 02-02-2024 4:22 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5969
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 3620 of 3731 (914776)
02-01-2024 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 3618 by ICANT
02-01-2024 6:53 PM


Re: By Definition
Shucks there I went down a rabbit hole.
Entirely of your own making.
I brought up that example of the differences that choosing different manuscripts can cause because different manuscripts of Luke 2:14 present the word, ευδοξια, in different cases (either in the nominative or the genitive) which in turn would lead to very different translations and interpretations. Indeed, here is what I wrote in Message 3614:
dwise1 writes:
And of course the different cases of ευδοξια in different manuscripts for Luke 2:14 make for very different translations and interpretations.
Nothing about the effects of having to choose between different meaning for the word, which does have a definite effect on the translation and interpretation of that verse, but I was only speaking to the effects of choosing which manuscript -- and hence which case -- to use in compiling Luke.
As another forum member has pointed out many times, there is no one single version of "The Bible". Lots of different versions, as you are well aware.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3618 by ICANT, posted 02-01-2024 6:53 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3621 by ICANT, posted 02-02-2024 3:25 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 107 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


(1)
Message 3621 of 3731 (914794)
02-02-2024 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 3620 by dwise1
02-01-2024 7:36 PM


Re: By Definition
Hi wise1.
dwise1 writes:
As another forum member has pointed out many times, there is no one single version of "The Bible". Lots of different versions, as you are well aware.
Yes and that is why I studied the languages so I can study the old parchments or at least pictures of them.
So I can at least check what somebody says the text says. If I disagree I go find information I can study until I am satisfied. Some of those searches have taken months.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3620 by dwise1, posted 02-01-2024 7:36 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 107 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 3622 of 3731 (914795)
02-02-2024 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 3619 by dwise1
02-01-2024 7:23 PM


Re: Candle is lit by Armstrongism...not the Bible.
Hi wise1,
dwise1 writes:
He does immediately identify his upbringing as "evangelical"
I don't classify the church of christ as being evangelical.
My point I was trying to make is there is no such thing as a
TRUE CHRISTIAN
To be a True Christian you would have to be living a life like Christ did. I haven't met that person yet
I don't even claim to be a Christian. I do claim to be a born again child of the king.
And when it comes to being born again you or anybody else can get into heaven without BEING BORN AGAIN every body that has died and everybody that is living has been born once of the flesh not but to get into the kingdom of God you have to be born of the Spirit

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3619 by dwise1, posted 02-01-2024 7:23 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 873
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 3623 of 3731 (914857)
02-06-2024 8:05 AM
Reply to: Message 3616 by ICANT
02-01-2024 4:53 PM


Re: Candle is lit by Armstrongism...not the Bible.
ICANT, you wrote,
"Do you observe the law of the burnt offering?
Do you observe the law of the meat offering?
Do you observe the law of the sin offering?
Do you observe the law of the trespass offering?

Jesus came to do something you could not do. He
fulfilled the law."
***The ones you listed above are not difficult to keep.
Israel kept them, and they did not have access to God's
Holy Spirit.
Very few before the death of Jesus had access to the
Holy Spirit.
King David was one of the few that did. And in Psalm
51:11, he asked God nor to take His Holy Spirit from him.
All the Prophets and men of faith in the OT had access
to the Holy Spirit.
No man has ever seen the Father, nor has anyone ever
heard His voice. John 5:37 & John 6:48.
Jesus was the member of the God family who wrote the
10 Commandments on stone, as well as the one who
led the Israelites out of Egypt. 1 Corinthians 10:1-4.
Jesus stated quite clearly that He and Abraham knew
each other. Furthermore, He stated Abraham rejoiced to
see His (Jesus) day.
All holy men of the OT knew Jesus, and they accepted
His sacrifice in advance.
The saints in the OT were not held to a different standard
than are people of today.
The Old Covenant was never designed for the purpose
of saving souls, so to speak.
God was not trying to save the nation of Israel at that
time. He treated them as a nation, with ceremonial and
civil laws that were designed to govern their interaction
with each other, as well as hit them in the pocketbook
when they committed sin.
The 10 ten Commandments, as well as the law forbidding
the eating of unclean meats were in force long before
Sinai. What the OC did not initiate cannot be taken away
when the OC ceases.
The Passover, as well as the week of Unleavened bread
were observed before the Israelites left Egypt. The other
holy days are also to be observed.
God's holy days outline His plan for cheating a family
for Himself. Passover is only the beginning. It makes a
relationship with the Father possible.
When I have the opportunity, I will state what each holy
day pictures.
The 10 Commandments, as well as some others, are God's
moral (spiritual) laws. They never change. They have, and
always will be in effect.
Yes, Jesus fulfilled the law, because it was a requirement.
In order for Him to lead a sinless life, which qualified Him
to die for our sins, He had to fulfill all that was required
of Him.
He left us an example. That can be no stronger statement
than this.
Matthew 5:17 "Do no think that I have come to abolish
the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them
but to fulfill them."
The way that you read this verse makes absolutely no
sense.
You interpret the verse to say that Jesus did nor come to
abolish the Law, but to abolish the Law.
See how ridiculous that sounds?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3616 by ICANT, posted 02-01-2024 4:53 PM ICANT has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 873
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 3624 of 3731 (914860)
02-06-2024 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 3616 by ICANT
02-01-2024 4:53 PM


Re: Candle is lit by Armstrongism...not the Bible.
ICANT, in the OT Passover began on the 14th of Abib. On
the 15th of the same month at evening (God's days
begin in the evening, and ends the following evening) is
the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. The first
and last days of the Week of unleavened bread are feast
days: annual Sabbaths.
During this week the Israelites were to remove leaven from
the house. All of it.
Leaven represents sin. A little bit of it can leaven a
whole loaf. Galatians 5:9; Matthew 16:6 & 1 Cor. 5:6-8.
In Exodus the Pharoah represented Satan. Egypt was sin,
and Pharoah's army were demons.
After accepting the blood of the Passover Lamb (in the NT,
It is the blood of Jesus) leaven (sin) was to be removed
from one's life.
While in Egypt the Israelites were slaves to sin. But, after
accepting the blood of the Lamb God's acts. He does the
same for Christians today.
The israelites fled from Egypt into Sinai (Sin). The Pharoah
came after them. He and his army (demons) came after
them.
Sin has a way of overpowering people.
The Pharoah and his army hemmed in the Israelites
against the Red Sea. They were powerless. At this time
they were totally dependent on God to provide them
with the strength that they lacked.
The cloud with Jesus, at that time, went from the front
of then to behind them. He placed Himself between
them and Pharoah and his army.
By parting the Red Sea God made a path of safety for
for them.
The walls of water on both side of them is a symbol of
God's Holy Spirit guiding us.
The only way that an individual today can keep God's Laws
is by admitting than we are unable to do so on our own.
And by trusting in God to carry us through.
Even when we obey God's Commandments, we realize that
It is not by our own strength. There is no reason for one
who does so to boast.
If an individual lacks the faith in God to supply him with
the necessary strength to obey His Laws, that individual
does not know God.
God's moral and spiritual Laws are immutable. He will not
compromise. He doesn't have to.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3616 by ICANT, posted 02-01-2024 4:53 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3625 by ICANT, posted 02-06-2024 5:28 PM candle2 has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 107 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


(1)
Message 3625 of 3731 (914882)
02-06-2024 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 3624 by candle2
02-06-2024 10:45 AM


Re: Candle is lit by Armstrongism...not the Bible.
Hi C2,
C2 writes:
The only way that an individual today can keep God's Laws
is by admitting than we are unable to do so on our own.
And by trusting in God to carry us through.
It was impossible for the Israelites to keep the Law in the Old Testament days and that was why they had to make blood sacrifices for their sins every year. Those blood sacrifices was a substitute for the sacrifice that was to come.
Paul writes:
Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
People in the Old Testament were saved just like the people today.
James writes:
James 2:23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Abraham believed God.
λογίζομαι the word translated imputed means 1. to take into account, to make an account of.
Abraham was made righteous by Gods Grace as His righteous was charged to Abrahams account because he believed God.
In August 1949 I believed God would save me giving me eternal life just because I trusted Him to do what He said He would do. I believe God who died on the cross as my sacrifice will keep His Word just as Abraham believed God.
The Old Testament saints believed God would forgive their sins if they offered a blood sacrifice every year. What will happen to those who did not believe God?
Your problem is that you don't believe God.
Lets get one thing straight I believe that the man most called Jesus was God in the flesh
Matthew was a tax collector so he is the one who kept the history of the Israelites and this is what he had to say about Messiah's birth.
Matthew writes:
Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
I believe what Matthew said as Ἐμμανουήλ means God with us. I am persuaded you don't believe that God the Father and God the Son are the same.
John writes:
John :1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born aga
God was talking to a Pharisees (law keeper) a ruler of the Jews telling him that he had to be born again or he could not see the KINGDOM of God vs 3. Then in verse 6 He tells him he cannot enter the KINGDOM of God
Now if this Jew who was keeping the law could not see or enter the Kingdom of God without being born again why do you think you are going to be an EXCEPTION and allowed to enter the KINGDOM OF GOD?
I am going to tell you right here and now unless you are born again you will not see or enter the KINGDOM OF GOD.
You might ask as Nicodemus did, how can a man be born when he is old.
You are halfway there because you are communicating with me. To get all the way there you will have to be born of the Spirit. That means your spirit must be born of the Spirit of God. That should tell you that you are a triune being as you have a physical body, and a spirit dwelling in that body as well as a mind.
Mankind is made in the image of God. God has a eternal body, a eternal spirit and an eternal mind. Since God is an eternal being all mankind are eternal beings which means they cannot be destroyed and cease to exist. They all have to have an eternal place to stay.
So you like Nicodemus must make up your mind that you have got to take God at His Word
First thing you have to believe you are condemned already.
quote:
John 3:18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
You have never accepted the fact since you are a Jew that that you have ever been condemned.
The only thing you have to do to be condemned is to be born of the flesh.
Everyone is protected until the age they reach the position the man formed from the dust of the ground did in the garden when he ate of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. Then he is responsible for that original sin of the man in the garden as well as the ones he/she commits. At this point he is separated from God forever unless his spirit is born again.
quote:
John :316 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
God loved you so much he took the place of your yearly sacrifices on the cross of Calvary and died once for all your sins the original sin as well as any other sin. He did that for you and whosoever trusts Him shall never perish but have everlasting life. Everlasting is something that never ends
Everlasting Life is not contingent on keeping any law or any works. It is contingent upon your trust in God to do what He says He will do.
If God can't GIVE YOU ETERNAL LIFE who or what can?
C2 writes:
If an individual lacks the faith in God to supply him with
the necessary strength to obey His Laws, that individual
does not know God.
If God did that you would not be a free moral agent but a robot and He has plenty of those. Everything in the universe obeys God except mankind as he was the only part of creation given a choice.
All He had to do for that to happen is to create us just like the angels or animals.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3624 by candle2, posted 02-06-2024 10:45 AM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3636 by candle2, posted 02-12-2024 12:19 PM ICANT has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 873
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 3626 of 3731 (914935)
02-07-2024 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 3616 by ICANT
02-01-2024 4:53 PM


Re: Candle is lit by Armstrongism...not the Bible.
ICANT, you stated:
"I believe that and practice both laws that He gave. I have
quoted them for you several times so I won't do it here."
***Jesus is the member of the God family who created
all that is in existence.
He is also the One who gave us the 10 Commandments.
In fact, He wrote them on stone. But there are numerous
examples of those who committed sin by breaking one
of His CommAndment, and these were centuries before
Mount Sinai.
The 10 Commandments were not put into force by the
Old Covenant. And the death of the OC has no bearing at
all on them.
If one followed your logic then there is no such thing as
sin. In your world they were done away with.
Someone who murders and rapes women, who steals
everthing that he can get his hand on, is just as
righteous as one who prays to the Father to help him
overcome his weaknesses.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3616 by ICANT, posted 02-01-2024 4:53 PM ICANT has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 873
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 3627 of 3731 (914984)
02-08-2024 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 3616 by ICANT
02-01-2024 4:53 PM


Re: Candle is lit by Armstrongism...not the Bible.
ICANY, you wrote:
"I believe that and practice both laws that He gave. I have
quoted them for you several times so I won't do it here."
***John 13:34 "A new Commandment I give to you, that
​you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also
love one another.
Notice that this verse does not annul God's 10
Commandments. Even the most liberal understanding
of this verse does not say this.
In fact, this new Commandment intensifies the others.
Jesus commanded His followers to love each, just as
He has loved them.
Jesus, as our Creator, gave His life for us. He died both a
horrible and painful death.
Jesus described the meaning of the ultimate love in
John 15:13, "Greater love has no one than this, than to
lay down one's life for his friends."
Both the OT and NT command us to love one another.
This was not a new concept. Jesus commanded His
followers to love each other more, even to the point
of death.
We are to love each other as those they are members of
our cherished family. As members of the family of God,
we will be required to do so.
Jesus not only loves us, He gave His life for us. He
exhibited great humility. He humbled Himself to the
point that He got down on His knees and washed His
disciples feet.
Imagine that! The Creator of the universe, and everything
in it, showed ultimate humility.
ICANT, I remember you writing that you have never done
anything that someone told you to do. And that you have
never done anything that you did not want to do.
You think that this is a virtue. You take pride in that
assertion. This is not being humble. False pride is not
humility.
Those who come to Jesus must humble themselves.
They must come to Him as humble as a little child.
Matthew 5:47 makes it very clear that Jesus came to
abolish His Commandment. He came to fulfill them.
Paul tells us to imitate the life of Jesus.
When one increases his love for others, he will be even
far less likely to steal from them. Or, to lie to them. It
will prevent adultery, etc....
When one observes God's Sabbath, it tells the world that
he worships the Creator. It points specifically to whom
one serves.
You, and many others seem to look for loopholes in the
Holy Bible; loopholes that allow you do as little as
possible in order to be saved.
The 10 Commandments are even more binding, not less.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3616 by ICANT, posted 02-01-2024 4:53 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3628 by ICANT, posted 02-08-2024 2:24 PM candle2 has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 107 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 3628 of 3731 (914987)
02-08-2024 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 3627 by candle2
02-08-2024 9:51 AM


Re: Candle is lit by Armstrongism...not the Bible.
Hi C2
C2 writes:
Notice that this verse does not annul God's 10
Commandments. Even the most liberal understanding
of this verse does not say this.
This one does.
Paul to the Church at Colosse writes:
Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Paul writes:
Colossians 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Observation: Paul is talking to a particular group of people.
Did he send this letter to a group of unsaved people? No
Did he send this letter to the Israelites? No
Did he send this letter to the Pharisees? No
Then who did he send this letter too?
The saints ἅγιος which means most holy thing, a saint
And faithful πιστός definition: #1. trusty, faithful
#2. of persons who show themselves faithful in the transaction of business, the execution of commands, or the discharge of official duties
brethren in Christ ἀδελφός definition: a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same father or mother.
Paul was calling these people his brothers through Christ. Paul was born again on the road when he said: " Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? "
Just in case you don't believe my quote here is the scripture.
quote:
Acts 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
6And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
Paul had been born of the Spirit of God, so he sent this letter to his brothers in Christ. For them to be his brothers in Christ they had to be born of the Holy Spirit as Paul had been. Not only that but they were carrying out the duties they had been given.
What was those duties? They are found in Matthew 28:19, 20.
quote:
Matthew 28:19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Also
quote:
Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Summary:
It seems like there were a bunch of Pharisees going around telling the churches that they had to be circumcised and keep the laws of the jews in order to go to heaven and be in the kingdom of God just like the Pharisee candle2 is doing here at EvC.
Paul was telling them the writing of ordinances had been taken away as they had been fulfilled and nailed to the cross.
C2 writes:
ICANT, I remember you writing that you have never done
anything that someone told you to do. And that you have
never done anything that you did not want to do.
You got a bad memory.
You think that this is a virtue. You take pride in that
assertion. This is not being humble. False pride is not humility.
I never said I: quoting you now "never done anything that someone told you to do"
I was an obedient child and always did what he said do. I always wanted too. He was 6'4" weighed 260 lbs and could yield peach limb.
I was always obedient in school until they wanted me to dress up like a girl and go to school one day I said no and did not do it. They punished me by not letting me be valedictorian of my graduating class even though I had an A average in all 4 years of high school. They said I had a bad attitude because I would not dress up as a girl and come to school
I had been saved born again when I was nine years old what would my testimony have been if I had gone against my principles and given to peer pressure?
So I will emphatically say I have never done anything some body wanted me to do that I did not want to do.
Now since God is God I can't make that statement. I have done a lot of things he wanted me to do that I did not want to do. But His will was much stronger than my will so He finally convinced me to do His will because it was a much better way than my way. I am glad now that I finally chose to do things His way and every has been nothing but peaches and cream every since.
You ought to decide to do things His way or you will never see the Kingdom of God.
You are hopelessly blinded by the devil and will not see the truth and
since God is not going to strive with you forever neither am I
God sent me to warn you and you have my words as well as His Words I gave you so when you stand at the Great White Throne judgment and you see me standing behind Jesus and you here Him say depart from me ye worker of iniquity I never knew you into everlasting punishment don't try to blame me. I will give you a thumbs down.
You do what ever you want to do.
I will also.
So this is Good Bye.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3627 by candle2, posted 02-08-2024 9:51 AM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3637 by candle2, posted 02-12-2024 3:36 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 3638 by candle2, posted 02-12-2024 4:07 PM ICANT has replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 873
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 3629 of 3731 (914988)
02-08-2024 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 3616 by ICANT
02-01-2024 4:53 PM


Re: Candle is lit by Armstrongism...not the Bible.
ICANT, you wrote:
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in
respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the
sabbath days:"
***Paul was addressing the Colossian Christians, who were
new to the faith. They were Gentiles, and they had never
observed God's holydays or Sabbaths.
The pagan philosophers were the ones doing the judging.
They never observed any of God's laws, and they were
condemning their fellow Colossians for having respect of
God's holydays and Sabbaths.
These pagan philosophers were ascetic. They believed in
denying self of all pleasure and fulfillment.
God's holydays and Sabbaths are feast days. The Colossian
Christians enjoyed themselves, and they celebrated these
days in a festive manner, which was in total opposition to
the ascetic.
You, as an elderly preacher should know this. And, there is
actually no excuse for why you shouldn't.
The word for "meat" here actually mean the act of eating. It
had nothing to do with meat.
Paul observed God's Sabbaths and holydays, and he never
asked anyone not to.
The Colossians were not being judged for replacing God's
Sabbaths with another day. They were being judged by
the pagan philosophers for enjoying these days in a manner
that brought them joy.
I will say it again. There is no reason for you not to know this.
I really believe that you are deliberately being deceptive.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3616 by ICANT, posted 02-01-2024 4:53 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 873
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 3630 of 3731 (915131)
02-10-2024 8:04 AM
Reply to: Message 3616 by ICANT
02-01-2024 4:53 PM


Re: Candle is lit by Armstrongism...not the Bible.
ICANT, you wrote:
"Since Jesus came to fulfill the law that job was finished
and now the law given to Moses was not in effect as He
had provided a New Covenant of grace."
***The 10 Commandments did not begin at Mt. Sinai.
You, as an elderly preacher should know this.
What did not originate from the Old Covenant cannot be
done away with when the Old Covenant is dissolved.
The men of faith in the Old Testament did not earn
salvation by works, no more than we can. They were
under grace.
How can anyone who says that the 10 Commandments
are against us, and insists that we can't keep them,
suggest that the OT Prophets did so?
I told you that I would have little time to post for several
weeks. I am still replying to your post 3616.
When I am finished with it, I will move to your next one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3616 by ICANT, posted 02-01-2024 4:53 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3631 by Phat, posted 02-10-2024 3:39 PM candle2 has not replied

  
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