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Author | Topic: Picayune Gods & Those Who Market Them | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Not at times, but rather always.
Plus you simply ignore ALL of the evidence people have provided for you if it doesn't say what you want to hear. You are simply willfully ignorant and stupid.My Website: My Website
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Not at all. I simply dispute what you claim to be evident.
You really cannot convince a believer that God is all in their head. I suppose you can call that fact stupid, but I would call your response infallibly arrogant.The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
God is irrelevant Phat.
Believers believe the fantasy they create. But we are talking about reality rather than fantasy. And you NEVER dispute, you only deny. I don't think you have any idea what the word dispute even means.My Website: My Website
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9146 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
Do you really think he is talking only about a god?
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
No, I knew that he was referring to my thinking process and ideological beliefs about humanity in general
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Phat writes: I have had a lot of "spiritual" (perhaps to some of you it is humanist) thinking lately. My plan was initially to go in the other room and quietly pour my heart out to God concerning a couple of people who were(are) on my heart, but what ended up happening is that I decided to watch Amazon Prime (The Marvelous Mrs.Maisal) God spoke quite clearly to me through the very Jewish secular drama and humor. The reason that I started this particular post, however, was to respond to Percy while taking the conversation out of Church History and placing it here.
The impetus for starting this session was to get everyone at the same table (believers and non-believers, Conservatives and Liberals alike) and hash it out without derailing other topics. Percy writes: Ironically, that was one of the lessons that I learned tonight. There are no insignificant people in this world. That in a nutshell is what God wanted me to know.
We shouldn't make this thread about you, but you do have a tendency to direct hate and resentment, along with attribution of some pretty derogatory attributes, toward many people and groups. In large groups people are pretty much the same everywhere, be they Democrats, atheists, homeless people, or migrants, but you seem to have a marked antipathy toward them, especially the unfortunate. Percy writes: Not to also drag this old thread off topic, but you DO realize what would happen if this world had no borders. Poor and hungry people would pour into our communities and we would be forced to help them. Do you honestly think that is what Jesus would want?
WWJD? You have to ask? Render unto Caesar. Borders would mean nothing to Jesus. We are all God's children. Borders are Godless and artificial constructions of men.Percy writes: I am prepared to make an argument that the Left Wing can be quite authoritarian themselves, but I will try and finish this post without reacting.
The far right wing is anti-democratic. Its authoritarian tendencies lean toward fascism.The Two Christianities and Their Problems writes: Comments?
All religions are totalitarian and all religions are authoritarian, although this latter quality is enhanced in theistic religions since of course their founding premise is that there is a super being that literally authored the universe in the first instance and authored the religion in the next, presumably to correct something that went wrong in the initial offering; and of course, the super being (because he is super) can’t possibly be held accountable for anything that goes wrong in his creation. So, when something does go wrong it must be the fault of the humans who are assigned caretakers of at least their part in creation. However in order to hold the humans accountable this super being cannot simply snuff them out and start anew – that would essentially admit that the creation of the humans was itself a mistake on the part of the super being, and a super being cannot make mistakes. So the humans have to be given a good lashing and made to feel guilty; but to remind them of the super being’s power, his majesty, how good he is in having created them and not snuffing them out, the unquestionable author also generates the fundamental principles of his creation’s religion. These fundamental principles structure the totalitarian control over their lives. They tell you what to do, what to think (“good thoughts”), what not to think (“the bad thoughts”), they tell you how to get up in the morning, what time to get up in the morning when to go to bed, how to go to bed (‘always say your prayers before you get into it’), they tell you what to do with your hands, how to wash, how to speak, how and when to light a candle- or not. And of course, what to do with your genitals. They tell you what to do with your children, what to tell your children, what your children are to do with you; and then, there’s all those foods you’re supposed to eat, foods you can’t eat (or feel terribly guilty about eating), and foods you’re to get violently angry when you see others eat it. Commandments cradle to the grave that, is the very essence of the religious life. This is certainly totalitarianism, the very definition of it. All attempts at modernist fascist or communistic totalitarian states (however supposedly secular) take this as their model for imitation...
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8536 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
Not to also drag this old thread off topic, but you DO realize what would happen if this world had no borders. Poor and hungry people would pour into our communities and we would be forced to help them. Do you honestly think that is what Jesus would want? My god, Phat, you're supposed to be a christian. I thought the answer to this would be obvious.Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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Percy Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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Phat writes: Percy writes: WWJD? You have to ask? Render unto Caesar. Borders would mean nothing to Jesus. We are all God's children. Borders are Godless and artificial constructions of men. Not to also drag this old thread off topic, but you DO realize what would happen if this world had no borders. Poor and hungry people would pour into our communities and we would be forced to help them. Do you honestly think that is what Jesus would want? The question was WWJD, not WWPD (AbE: I originally misread Phat's response. I responded more appropriately in Message 94.)
Percy writes: The far right wing is anti-democratic. Its authoritarian tendencies lean toward fascism. I am prepared to make an argument that the Left Wing can be quite authoritarian themselves,... I'm against all anti-democratic leanings regardless of origin, while you justify the right's anti-democratic tendencies by saying, "Oh yeah? Well the left does it, too." Except that they don't. My political wind vane isn't left/right but democratic/anti-democratic and sane/insane. New Hampshire has a Republican governor who is democratic and sane, my two primary qualifications. He's fine. On the other hand, Florida has a Republican governor who is certifiably anti-democratic and insane. He's ghastly. Who I favor politically, who anyone favors politically, should depend upon their having sane positions on important current issues, upon having the best interests of the country at heart (rather than of a political party or even just a single individual), and upon having demonstrated good judgment that will serve them well as the they face the unforeseeable during their term in office. Anyone who's choice of candidate is based on left-good/right-bad or vice versa is putting no thought or research into it and shouldn't be voting. That being said, Trump has bent the Republican part all out of recognizable shape. They're no longer conservative, don't even know what they are. They're so uncertain what they stand for, other than being against Democrats and anything Democrats want to do, that they didn't even have a presidential platform in 2020. Their policy positions? Whatever Trump last said. It's a lot easier to find insane Republicans ("The 2020 election was stolen." "January 6th was like a tourist visit." "Covid was faked." "There's no climate change, and even if there is it's natural variation.") than Democrats (I can't think of a single Democrat conspiracy theory). About your quote from The Two Christianities and Their Problems, sounds good to me. How about you? --Percy Edited by Percy, : AbE.
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Some of us fear a one world government without borders. You don't?
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9146 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3
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Nope. Not sure why we should.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Percy Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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Phat writes: AZPaul3 writes: Not to also drag this old thread off topic, but you DO realize what would happen if this world had no borders. Poor and hungry people would pour into our communities and we would be forced to help them. Do you honestly think that is what Jesus would want? My god, Phat, you're supposed to be a christian. I thought the answer to this would be obvious. Some of us fear a one world government without borders. You don't? You fear one world government because people would flow from less advantaged regions to more advantaged regions, and the people of the more advantaged regions would be forced to help those migrating in. I have two questions:
But something like turning on a switch did happen when the Soviet Union fell and East and West Germany joined to again become one country. There was a net outflowing of people from East to West Germany, and the eastern economy was uncompetitive with the west. It was very disruptive for a time, over a decade. The government stepped up social welfare programs for those in the east, and major infrastructure investments were made in the east. Eastern Germany remains weaker economically than western but only trails by about 18% at present, and overall Germany has become stronger and wealthier than ever. --Percy
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DrJones* Member Posts: 2285 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 8.3
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Poor and hungry people would pour into our communities and we would be forced to help them. Do you honestly think that is what Jesus would want? Because of course Jesus's most famous lesson was "Fuck you, I got mine". Seriously Phat, this kind of thinking is why Jar always said that heaven isn't going to have a lot of christians in it.It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds soon I discovered that this rock thing was true Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world And so there was only one thing I could do Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On *not an actual doctor
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nwr Member Posts: 6409 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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Phat in Message 81 writes: I am prepared to make an argument that the Left Wing can be quite authoritarian themselves, but I will try and finish this post without reacting. There are some authoritarian tendencies at the extremes. The leftists that I know and have known have all been of the "live and let live" way of thinking. The right seems far more authoritarian.
Comments? What you quoted seems to be a good assessment of the authoritarian tendencies of religion.Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8536 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.0
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Some of us fear a one world government without borders. You don't? Nope. One of my degrees is in economics. Borders disrupt the free flow of people and materials across regions. Just like the free market, let the needs of the population dictate this flow and even-out the disparities. Governments and borders get in the way. Indeed, they make such disparities much worse. Why fear, Phat? What do you think you are going to lose?Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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NosyNed Member Posts: 9003 From: Canada Joined:
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You'd have been against the formation of the United States of America because it meant the states had to give up some power to be part of a larger union with greater benefits.
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