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Author
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Topic: ChatGPT
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Percy
Member Posts: 23796 From: New Hampshire Joined: 12-23-2000 Member Rating: 4.6
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Message 211 of 233 (924336)
11-04-2025 9:11 AM
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Reply to: Message 210 by NosyNed
11-03-2025 8:07 AM
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Re: Tesla FSD
A friend relies rupon FSD almost all the time. I used FSD for a little while during a free trial and found it very, very capable. I tried to test the limits, and one test was a left turn onto a busy 4-line road (not a highway). It did a series of successive jerks forward, then suddenly leapt out with high acceleration. That was the only time it scared me. The rest of the time it was very, very good. It did have a bit of a tendency to drift a little left toward center on backroads with no lines. Because Tesla relies exclusively on cameras FSD can't be safely used in snow or when rain gets heavy or in fog. My argument in favor of FSD, even at the not-yet-good-enough levels so-far achieved, is that if 100% of cars used FSD when conditions permitted that motor vehicle deaths would drop preciptously. But they wouldn't drop to zero, and there would be an acceptance problem because many people aren't comfortable when computes rather than people are responsible for injury and deaths. --Percy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 210 by NosyNed, posted 11-03-2025 8:07 AM | | NosyNed has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 212 by NosyNed, posted 11-04-2025 9:43 AM | | Percy has seen this message but chosen not to reply |
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NosyNed
Member (Idle past 283 days) Posts: 9018 From: Canada Joined: 04-04-2003
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Message 212 of 233 (924339)
11-04-2025 9:43 AM
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Reply to: Message 211 by Percy
11-04-2025 9:11 AM
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Re: Tesla FSD
You're exactly right. There are all sorts of subtle issues to handle coming in the near future. Right now, if I move the wheel more than a tiny bit or touch the brakes at all, FSD says "you have the con, I'm outta here". James Douma (look him up) seems to be a very smart guy. He commented that in the near future it may be possible to demonstrate that the human should not be allowed to take over. That, mostly, the car will do a better job. You can imagine the uproar. It will be fun. We don't often get super downpours here but so far even in what we think of as heavy rain it manages fine (usually with a warning it might be downgraded). I've only used it in snow once and not heavy snow but it managed that too. I've driven back from skiing in conditions that FSD probably couldn't have handled for sure. But the important point is that I shouldn't have been driving either. Radar (of high enough frequency ) might have been useful but lidar would be as blind as I was. The next year or 2 are going to be very interesting.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 211 by Percy, posted 11-04-2025 9:11 AM | | Percy has seen this message but chosen not to reply |
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Minnemooseus
Member Posts: 4031 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: 11-11-2001
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Message 213 of 233 (924566)
12-06-2025 10:32 PM
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Person Place Thing with Randy Cohen - A conversation with ChatGPT
556: ChatGPT | Person Place Thing with Randy Cohen
quote:
A conversation with the basic, free, web version, using its default voice. Like my human guests, it chose the three topics, and I did just the usual light editing. Good news: it says, “I’m on your side, not on any destructive path.” Bad news: this is what the space aliens say in every sci-fi movie just before they try to destroy the earth.
Moose
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9889 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.5
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Message 214 of 233 (924569)
12-07-2025 2:17 AM
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In a specialist area of my research. I completely made up an important fact and posted in online. I said that there are 600,000 widgets needed to make one gadget. (Where 'widgets' and ‘gadgets' are real sciency things.) Now anyone who searches for an answer to 'how many widgets make a gadget?' gets that answer. We're fucked.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 215 by Percy, posted 12-07-2025 6:32 AM | | Tangle has replied |
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Percy
Member Posts: 23796 From: New Hampshire Joined: 12-23-2000 Member Rating: 4.6
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Message 215 of 233 (924570)
12-07-2025 6:32 AM
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Reply to: Message 214 by Tangle
12-07-2025 2:17 AM
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How Many Snarls Make a Tangle
How many snarls make a tangle?
Gemini:
There is no specific, universally defined number for how many snarls make a tangle; the terms are generally used to describe the severity and complexity of interwoven strands, particularly in hair or string.
How many snarls make a tangle on a discussion board?
Gemini:
In the context of a discussion board, "snarl" and "tangle" are not formal or technical terms with a specific numerical relationship. They are used colloquially to describe a complicated, confusing, or muddled conversation. A discussion becomes a "tangle" when there are multiple "snarls," meaning:
- Multiple threads are intertwined (people responding to different points in a non-linear fashion).
- The conversation is difficult to follow or "unravel".
- Participants are talking past each other or engaging in a disagreement (an "argument tangle").
- The initial topic is lost amidst various sub-discussions and complications.
Ultimately, the number of "snarls" required to form a "tangle" is subjective and depends on when a user feels the discussion has become hopelessly confused or difficult to navigate, much like a physical knot in hair or thread.
Can a single person turn a constructive discucssion board thread into a tangle my introducing multiple snarls?
Gemini:
A single person can certainly disrupt a constructive discussion board thread and turn it into a tangle by introducing multiple "snarls" through various manipulative or unhelpful communication tactics. This is often described as derailing the conversation, trolling, or engaging in bad faith arguments. This can occur through various means that shift the focus, introduce conflict, or confuse the participants. By introducing unrelated topics, making personal attacks, or using misleading arguments, one person can create a complex and confusing situation that makes it difficult for others to engage constructively. This can lead to the thread becoming unproductive and difficult to follow.
It provided no specifics about how many widgets make a gadget, but I always thought it was a small number, like 14.  --Percy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 214 by Tangle, posted 12-07-2025 2:17 AM | | Tangle has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 216 by Tangle, posted 12-07-2025 7:12 AM | | Percy has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9889 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.5
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Message 216 of 233 (924572)
12-07-2025 7:12 AM
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Reply to: Message 215 by Percy
12-07-2025 6:32 AM
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Re: How Many Snarls Make a Tangle
Percy writes: How many snarls make a tangle on a discussion board? In this case 600,000 From post #1
GDR writes: ChatGPT can apparently produce university quality papers in 3 seconds on pretty much any subject you can name. I would guess that a sense of morality could be programmed into it but at the same time so could total depravity. Yesterday I asked it to give me information on UV cones in adult Atlantic Salmon. It gave me a long and confident spiel which sounded very convincing, but this is not my first rodeo with ChatGPT so I asked for the peer reviewed papers that underpinned the answer. It quoted the full reference, title of paper, authors and date so I went to look for it. It was about frogs and their skin. I must have the wrong reference I thought so I asked it to check. It said it was correct so I tried again. Nope, frogs. I told it that it was wrong but it wouldn't have it. Told me to clear my browser cache. So I asked Grok. Grok couldn't find the paper. So I asked Google Scholar - no such paper exists. The entire thing had been made up and it won't admit to it. Like I say, we're all fucked.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 215 by Percy, posted 12-07-2025 6:32 AM | | Percy has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 217 by PaulK, posted 12-07-2025 7:20 AM | | Tangle has replied |
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PaulK
Member Posts: 18455 Joined: 01-10-2003
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Message 217 of 233 (924573)
12-07-2025 7:20 AM
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Reply to: Message 216 by Tangle
12-07-2025 7:12 AM
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Re: How Many Snarls Make a Tangle
Well you wouldn’t expect Jordan Peterson to get it right, would you? As I quoted in Message 4
In a very real sense then, ChatGPT cannot write an essay. It can imitate an essay, but because it is incapable of the tasks which give an essay its actual use value (original thought and analysis), it can only produce inferior copies of other writing.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 216 by Tangle, posted 12-07-2025 7:12 AM | | Tangle has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 218 by Tangle, posted 12-07-2025 8:54 AM | | PaulK has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9889 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.5
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Message 218 of 233 (924574)
12-07-2025 8:54 AM
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Reply to: Message 217 by PaulK
12-07-2025 7:20 AM
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Re: How Many Snarls Make a Tangle
In my case it just made up an entire paper that it was "quoting" from. First fiction then a bare-faced lie. Not only did it lie, it gave me a reference to a different real paper in the hope that I wouldn't actually read it. They call it hallucinating because it sounds nicer than lying to us.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 217 by PaulK, posted 12-07-2025 7:20 AM | | PaulK has not replied |
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Percy
Member Posts: 23796 From: New Hampshire Joined: 12-23-2000 Member Rating: 4.6
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Message 219 of 233 (924575)
12-07-2025 9:01 AM
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By Far ChatGPT"s Worst Advice
Only those of you who live in snow country and use a snowblower will understand how bad this advice is. It's extracted from a conversation about my experience using my new electric snowblower (edited for length and clarity):
| Me | I didn't realize it immediately, but gradually it dawned on me where the power was going. Turning the thrower down to the midrange helped quite a bit, and then letting the thrower go idle while maneuvering the blower or while moving from one location to another also helped quite a bit. In the end I was able to finish driveway, turnaround, 25 feet sidewalk and a 50' path to the propane tank with a little power to spare across my six 12 Ah batteries. Was wondering if you had any thoughts.
| | ChatGPT | ... If you want, I can also give you when to use single-state vs dual-state clearing passes on long driveways.
| | Me | Don't know what single-state vs. dual state cleaning passes are.
| | ChatGPT | “When to use single-state vs dual-state clearing passes.” You said you didn’t understand this — so here’s what I meant:
A “single-state pass” = one pass to full depth A “dual-state pass” = remove half the depth first, then come back for the lower half
| | Me | About that last, you're again listening to a spurious source. Doing a pass at half depth isn't possible. I don't know how to explain this to an LLM who has never experienced the actual real world. I guess all I can say is that the snowblower is too heavy to ride atop any snow. It will always sit on your driveway. If you tilt it back and attempt to ride up on top of the snow, you might be able to do that with a really heavy dense snow, sort of, maybe, but the wheels would have little to no traction.
| | ChatGPT | Yeah, fair call-out. Let me walk through where I overreached and recalibrate to how these things actually behave in the real world, not in a too-abstract physics cartoon...etc... | Can you believe it? ChatGPT thought you could remove the top 6 inches of deep snow by having your snowblower ride on top of the snow beneath it. If I wanted I could post boners like this daily, but if I was to be fair I'd have to post an equal number of my own. --Percy
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9889 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.5
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Message 220 of 233 (924589)
12-08-2025 5:51 PM
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This is really difficult to believe. Why would you invent a reference to a scientific paper? 2. Mechanism of hallucination • If asked for a scientific reference, the model combines: • author names it has seen, • plausible journal titles, • realistic publication years, and • terminology from relevant fields. • This produces a plausible but fabricated citation, even though no such paper exists. 3. Evidence of this behavior • OpenAI’s GPT-4 Technical Report (2023) states: “GPT-4 still produces hallucinations… particularly when asked for obscure or rare facts or citations.” • ACL 2023: “Evaluating Factual Consistency in LLMs” documents that LLMs frequently invent sources that appear credible. • PLOS Digital Health 2024: demonstrates LLMs often generate ‘fake but fluent’ references when real sources are not available. 4. No intent • The model does not “intend” to deceive. It simply follows its training objective (predict the next token to create coherent, contextually appropriate text). Conclusion: References to scientific papers can be invented because the model predicts plausible patterns of citations rather than querying a verified database. This is a known limitation of LLMs. Known limitation????
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 221 by Rahvin, posted 12-08-2025 6:01 PM | | Tangle has not replied |
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Rahvin
Member (Idle past 121 days) Posts: 4179 Joined: 07-01-2005
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Message 221 of 233 (924590)
12-08-2025 6:01 PM
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Reply to: Message 220 by Tangle
12-08-2025 5:51 PM
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Yes, known limitations. Modern llms are fantastically complicated auto-complete. The api endpoint on the backend is even usually called "completions." AI takes a given string of text (your prompt) and predicts the next "token," which is basically just a word. Then it does it again and again. It's probabilistic and based off of some settings plus the model weights from training. The result is the response text. This means that AI can very easily make up nonsense that sounds legit. There's a lot of work in the industry to reduce hallucinations. There are many techniques already. But it's still good to remember that AI is just fancy auto complete. It has interesting emergent capabilities and its a useful tool, but it's not deterministically accurate.
-->“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.” - Francis Bacon"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers “A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus "...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995... "Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
1 Corinthians 15:26King James Version (KJV) -->Nihil supernum --> -->
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 220 by Tangle, posted 12-08-2025 5:51 PM | | Tangle has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9889 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.5
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Message 222 of 233 (924609)
12-10-2025 5:46 PM
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So... I told ChatGPT that I only wanted answers from it that that could be fully verified with links to real data with nothing made up. Then I ask for information on the TV series Pluribus. It says no such thing exists. I tell it the plot. I give it links to Wikipedia and IMDB. It says that no such thing exists. I ask it if I'd incapicated it. No — I’m not incapacitated. What has happened is simply this: You provided two links (a Wikipedia page and an IMDb page) for a TV series called Pluribus, but neither of those pages actually exists on the real public internet. When I’m required to verify something, I must check using real, live web data. When I do that, the pages you referenced do not appear, and the title Pluribus does not resolve to any real, publicly documented series. So from my side, the correct strict‑mode answer is: No evidence available. This doesn’t incapacitate anything — it simply means the material you’re seeing locally (on Apple TV or otherwise) is not discoverable on the public web, which can happen with: • region‑limited internal releases • test‑market content • private early‑access feeds • titles changed before public cataloguing • content not yet indexed or not yet licensed for general release If you want, you can give me: • cast names • episode titles • production company • opening credits text With even one verifiable detail, I can cross‑search properly. Here are the links I gave it Pluribus (TV Series 2025– ) - IMDbhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluribus_(TV_series) Not only are we fucked, so are AIs
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 223 by Rahvin, posted 12-10-2025 6:06 PM | | Tangle has replied |
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Rahvin
Member (Idle past 121 days) Posts: 4179 Joined: 07-01-2005
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Message 223 of 233 (924610)
12-10-2025 6:06 PM
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Reply to: Message 222 by Tangle
12-10-2025 5:46 PM
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AI chatbot don't natively have access to browse the internet. They need to be explicitly given that access by coding "tools" that they can use to accomplish tasks. Remember - a large language model just predicts text. That's all it does. Text can only browse the web if you write a command line interface, implement a parser to read the page content and translate it to text to supply to the llm, etc. And because it's all just text lrediction, sometimes an AI will stupidly not use a tool it actually does have. People think AI is like Commander Data. Its not. Its fancy mega-complex auto-complete. It's a neat tool, and it *can* be used effectively for a lot of tasks. But using AI is not as simple as "I asked chatgpt". Effective promtping alone takes practice, it's a skill. And even that doesn't really scratch the surface until you start developing actual AI applications. Coding your own chatbot, or your own deep research agent, can be a fun challenge for those so inclined and really helps you learn about the true limits and capabilities of these tools.
-->“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.” - Francis Bacon"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers “A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus "...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995... "Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
1 Corinthians 15:26King James Version (KJV) -->Nihil supernum --> -->
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 222 by Tangle, posted 12-10-2025 5:46 PM | | Tangle has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 224 by Tangle, posted 12-11-2025 3:26 AM | | Rahvin has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9889 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.5
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Message 224 of 233 (924616)
12-11-2025 3:26 AM
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Reply to: Message 223 by Rahvin
12-10-2025 6:06 PM
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Rahvin writes: AI chatbot don't natively have access to browse the internet. That's a strange thing to say. ChatGPT obviously does have access to the public internet, one of it's tasks is as a more effective search engine. Here's the fully enabled ChatGPT answering my question about Pluribus that it couldn't answer before because I told it not to lie.. Here’s a summary of the IMDb page for Pluribus (TV Series 2025– ): ???? Title Pluribus — a TV series listed on IMDb with the identifier tt22202452.  ???? Plot Summary In a world overtaken by a mysterious wave of forced happiness, most people are compulsively cheerful. Carol Sturka, one of the few who is immune to this phenomenon, begins to uncover the truth behind it — and potentially must save humanity from whatever is causing this unnatural state.  ???? Tone & Themes • The series blends surreal or speculative elements with character-driven storytelling. • It explores perception, emotion, and social dynamics under bizarre conditions of enforced positivity.  ???????? Central Character • Carol Sturka is the show’s protagonist — described in news and reviews as an unlikely and eccentric lead who navigates the strange world of the show.  ???? Reception • There’s an IMDb rating and user feedback available on the page, indicating audience reactions and episode evaluations, though exact scores aren’t displayed in the summary snippets.  ????️ Additional Info • The page includes standard IMDb sections like full cast & crew, episode lists, trivia, and FAQs typical of ongoing series entries.  If you want more detail on cast or episode specifics, I can pull those next!
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 223 by Rahvin, posted 12-10-2025 6:06 PM | | Rahvin has replied |
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Percy
Member Posts: 23796 From: New Hampshire Joined: 12-23-2000 Member Rating: 4.6
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Message 225 of 233 (924619)
12-11-2025 5:52 AM
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Reply to: Message 224 by Tangle
12-11-2025 3:26 AM
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When I use ChatGPT it accesses the net inconsistently. For instance, "Who was sitting in the stands with Randy Moss at the recent Giants/Patriots game?" received the answer that the last Giants/Patriots game had taken place in 2024 and that Randy Moss was not in attendance. I then suggested that it might have to use the Internet for this question because the game had taken place only a few days before, and it then responded that Randy Moss was sitting with Doug Flutie, winning me the bet.  --Percy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 224 by Tangle, posted 12-11-2025 3:26 AM | | Tangle has not replied |
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