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Author Topic:   Atheists: Time to Come Out of the Closet!
Dredge
Member (Idle past 118 days)
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 72 of 174 (913737)
12-02-2023 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Tangle
10-20-2023 12:03 PM


Re: Choose This Day
Tangle writes:
You're all bonkers.
If atheists are correct and this life is all there is, then nothing matters, bcoz life is meaningless - so it doesn't matter if all religion is bonkers.
It doesn't matter what humans do or think or believe or feel or experience - they're just bags of chemicals whose existence is as meaningless as a bag of mud. Most atheists lack the courage to face up to this fact - going so far as to deny it - but that doesn't matter either.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Tangle, posted 10-20-2023 12:03 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Tangle, posted 12-02-2023 2:56 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 74 by Percy, posted 12-03-2023 10:17 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 118 days)
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 75 of 174 (913761)
12-03-2023 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by Tangle
12-02-2023 2:56 PM


Re: Choose This Day
Tangle writes:
I suggest you pretend for a day that there is no god and see if nothing matters
Been there, done that. Atheism means a human being is just a bag of chemicals that's here today and gone tomorrow - there's no meaning in that; chemicals don't have meaning.
If religion is a fantasy world, atheists who believe their lives have meaning also live in a fantasy world. Any meaning atheists ascribe to life is an invention of weak minds that can't accept reality. But that's OK, coz if this life is all there is, life is as meaningless as death, so it doesn't matter if someone lives in a dream world.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Tangle, posted 12-02-2023 2:56 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by Tangle, posted 12-03-2023 5:10 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 77 by Percy, posted 12-03-2023 7:38 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 118 days)
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 78 of 174 (913788)
12-05-2023 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by Percy
12-03-2023 10:17 AM


Re: Choose This Day
Percy writes:
This is interesting. You don't refer to the sky daddy but to the afterlife. For you it is the afterlife that gives life meaning. How so?
If God said to me, "I'll give you 80 years of life, but that's all. There is no after-life", I would consider that 80 years of life just as meaningless as if there were no God at all. A finite life is meaningless; life has meaning only if it's eternal.
I'm like Tangle. This life is all there is ...
I'm not an atheist. I do believe in God
You believe in God but also believe that this life is all there is? Huh? What's the point of believing in God if there's no after-life?
My belief in God springs from faith and involves no evidence.
If this life is all there is, your faith in God is as pointless and meaningless as the rest of your life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Percy, posted 12-03-2023 10:17 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Percy, posted 12-05-2023 11:19 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 80 by Tangle, posted 12-05-2023 12:16 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 104 by Phat, posted 12-11-2023 10:24 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 118 days)
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 83 of 174 (913802)
12-06-2023 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Theodoric
12-05-2023 12:39 PM


Re: Choose This Day
If this life is all there is, morality is meaningless. Doing good or doing evil ... it doesn't matter ... one is as meaningless as the other.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Theodoric, posted 12-05-2023 12:39 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-06-2023 1:33 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 86 by AZPaul3, posted 12-06-2023 4:08 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 89 by Phat, posted 12-06-2023 4:58 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 118 days)
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 98 of 174 (913835)
12-08-2023 1:22 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by AZPaul3
12-07-2023 4:39 AM


Re: AZProphet3 Has Entered The Game
APauling666 writes:
The universe defines my reality. And yours. Science helps me discern what my reality is.
Welcome to the shallow, dishonest mind of the atheist. The truth is, puny science can't explain or define reality. It's utterly clueless when confronted with evidence of the supernatural - miracles, for example - which atheists wilfully deny, since they're incompatible with their godless fantasy world.
I have strong feelings against the evil religion has caused in humanity for millennia.
Do you have "strong feelings against the evil" atheist (Communist) regimes of the 20th century that were responsible for more bloodshed that all the centuries of religion combined? Atheists are the biggest killers in history, by far. Career criminals are all atheists too. Evil begets evil.
but you haven’t made me emperor so I can’t hang the last capitalist billionaire with the entrails of the last priest.
I’m ready to enact the most draconian measures against religion
What we've got here is a full-blown, neo-Communist psychopath. He gets on his moral high-horse about racism, but seethes with murderous hatred for anyone who believes in God or has more money than he does (probably hates Jews too). Ol' misery guts ... hates life so much he can't wait to die.
What you need to do is, wake up and realize the obvious logical implications of your belief system: If this life is all there is and is the result of mindless evolution, everything is meaningless, so why get angry and upset about things that are meaningless, such as religion and perceived injustices visited on other people? Evolution doesn't care about religion, justice and injustice, good and evil, so neither should you - it's all meaningless. Atheists are so dumb.
The strictures of secular society on social behavior and common mores is more effective at defining a viable humanist social morality than any imposed religious one.
Right, you mean "morality" like gay marriage and abortion ... LOL. Atheists also introduced the madness of feminism and multiculturalism - products of their idiotic egalitarian morality.
The secular society of Pol Pot (more of your Communists mates here) was particularly "effective at defining ... morality" - it thought it moral to murder 25% of the population of Cambodia in the name of equality - anyone in society who wasn't a lowly peasant had to die (oh, except for the guiding elites, of course). Atheism is evil.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by AZPaul3, posted 12-07-2023 4:39 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by Percy, posted 12-08-2023 8:55 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 118 days)
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 100 of 174 (913843)
12-09-2023 3:27 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by Tanypteryx
12-07-2023 6:13 PM


Re: Choose This Day
Tanypteryx writes:
I think you are mistaken to think we (the atheists here) have refused to consider the possibility of a higher power. In reading what they have written here, for years, it is quite clear that every one of them has considered that possibility deeply. If any of you had any evidence we would look at it.
This is bullshit. Atheists don't believe in God because they don't want God in their lives. It's got nothing to do with "evidence" - atheists see the same evidence of God as believers, but unlike believers, atheists wilfully choose to ignore that evidence.
When I tell atheists about the two miracles that I personally experienced, they conclude I must be suffering some form of insanity - they don't believe me bcoz they don't want to believe me.
Atheists use all the negative things in life to argue against the existence of God, while believers accept the existence of God despite all the negative things in life.
sometimes atheists aggressively reject religions because of the atrocities perpetrated throughout human history because of religious differences
No, they reject religion because they reject God, then they use the unfortunate history of religious wars as a rock to hurl at those who do believe in God.
Atheist often get fed up with being discriminated against in this society
Boo hoo, that's so sad. Thankfully, there are still people know instinctively that atheism is inherently evil.
P.S. Stop eating insects, they're damaging your brain.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-07-2023 6:13 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Tangle, posted 12-09-2023 7:24 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 102 by Percy, posted 12-09-2023 7:55 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 103 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-09-2023 11:44 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 118 days)
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 106 of 174 (913897)
12-12-2023 1:52 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by Phat
12-11-2023 10:27 AM


Re: Choose This Day
Phat writes:
While I dont think that most people want just any god in their lives or church or religion, I think that most people would accept Jesus in their lives. As Percy and others have said before, sure we would if we were certain. Show us the evidence.

And I can respect that.
"For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made.
So they are without excuse".
(Romans 1:19-20)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Phat, posted 12-11-2023 10:27 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Tangle, posted 12-12-2023 3:18 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 110 by Percy, posted 12-12-2023 10:59 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 118 days)
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 120 of 174 (913923)
12-13-2023 8:54 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by Phat
12-06-2023 4:58 PM


Re: Pope On A Rope
Phat writes:
I think what you mean is that ultimate purpose is meaningless.
If the "ultimate purpose" of life is meaninglessness, then life is meaningless from beginning to end.
If eternal life did not exist, would it be any more appropriate for me to go over to Tannys house and wreck all of his dragonfly slides? Or step on his face? Or he step on mine?
If this life is all there is, doing evil things is as meaningless as doing good things in other words, morality is meaningless (yet It's interesting that many atheists become fanatical left-wing morality-warriors, which is really just a vain attempt to inject meaning into their meaningless lives).
Most atheists don't have the courage to accept the logical implication of their belief system - ie, the life of a human being is as meaningless as the life of a worm - so most atheists choose to delude themselves that their lives have meaning.
Let me ask you this.

If the world tore down every Cathedral, wrecked every statue, and arrested Pope Francis, would God be any less real?
The Catholic Church is the body of Christ. The body cannot be separated from the head, which is Christ.
Christ promised that his (Catholic) Church will never be destroyed (Matt 16:19). That promise doesn’t apply to non-Catholic "churches", bcoz all non-Catholic "churches" are fake churches, preaching fake Christianity to people who are too stupid or too mentally unstable or too intellectually dishonest to see the truth of Catholicism. One day, Christ will remove all false religion from the face of the earth - including your fake Christianity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Phat, posted 12-06-2023 4:58 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Tangle, posted 12-13-2023 11:46 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 122 by Percy, posted 12-13-2023 4:58 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 118 days)
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 125 of 174 (913941)
12-14-2023 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by Tangle
12-13-2023 11:46 AM


Re: Pope On A Rope
Tangle writes:
Quite obviously atheists have meaning in their lives
If this life is all there is and all life-forms are the product of some mindless natural process, the life of a human has no more meaning than the life of a worm ... or a rock, for that matter. If belief in God is a delusion, your belief that your life has meaning is also a delusion.
and act as morally as anybody else ... It's no good asserting that these things don't exist without your imaginary spook, because it's easily demonstrated that they do
You're barking up the wrong tree here - I never claimed that atheists can't act morally. All career criminals and serial killers are atheists, but not all atheists are career criminals and serial killers.
I'm a moral being
Says who? If you ask me, atheism is immoral by definition and you support abortion and gay marriage, which I also consider immoral. Some people think homophobia is immoral, but I think it's a virtue. Without God, morality can be literally anything you want it to be - for example, the Nazis and Pol Pot thought it moral to murder millions of innocent people.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Tangle, posted 12-13-2023 11:46 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Tangle, posted 12-14-2023 12:52 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 135 by Omnivorous, posted 12-16-2023 1:09 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 136 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-16-2023 1:24 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 118 days)
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 128 of 174 (913954)
12-15-2023 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by Tangle
12-14-2023 12:52 PM


Re: Pope On A Rope
Tangle writes:
You're making a category mistake. Worms are not conscious, we are. Worms have biological drives, humans have consciousness, we are capable of creating meaning - including creating gods to give us meaning if that's what it takes.
Human conciousness doesn't alter the atheist perspective - ie, that humans are just one more random organism roaming the planet and that their existence has no more meaning than that of a worm. Human conciousness can be used to create the illogical delusion of meaning, or it can be used to come to the logical conclusion that life is meaningless.
Bollox
No bollox at all, it's quite true - people who fear God don't become career criminals and serial killers.
Here's an interesting fact: When someone is officially accepted into the Italian mafia (becomes a "made man") he recites an oath, which begins with "There is no God."
humans understand what is right and wrong and understand it at a very early age.
That is true to a certain degree, but mostly humans are taught what is "right and wrong" by some higher authority - parents or society or religion.
Humans can develop very diverse and conflicting ideas about what is "right and wrong". For example, if an equality-warrior went to a Muslim country and started publicly campaigning for gay marriage, he'd be promptly lynched by an angry mob (and rightly so). If you kill a cow in India for food, you could suffer a similar fate. A woman in Iran who doesn't wear a head-scarf can be jailed or even killed. As I said in my previous epistle, morality can be anything you want it to be.
explain why I'm immoral yet acting moral
Without God to decide what is objectively moral, morality is largely, subjective. What you consider to be "acting moral (sic)", could be someone else's idea of acting immorally - support for gay marriage and abortion come to mind.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Tangle, posted 12-14-2023 12:52 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by Tangle, posted 12-15-2023 10:11 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 118 days)
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 132 of 174 (913970)
12-16-2023 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by Tangle
12-15-2023 10:11 AM


Re: Pope On A Rope
Tangled writes:
There's no such thing as an atheist perspective.
The atheist perspective is that humans are a product of the same mindless, aimless, meaningless natural process that produced grubs and potatoes and viruses.
According to a report by Statista, approximately 38,184 prisoners in England and Wales identified as being Christian in 2023, the most of any religious faith among prisoners. A further 26,715 identified as having no religion, while 15,271 identified as Muslims.
Those statistics don't disprove my claim that people who fear God don't become career criminals or serial killers. Firstly, the vast majority of jail inmates are neither career criminals, nor serial killers. Secondly, a jail inmate may be nominally Catholic (thru baptism), for example, but may not hold any Catholic beliefs at all and therefore has no fear of God.
As for all those jailed Catholic altar-boy molesters, it can be argued that none of them feared God ... bcoz they no longer believed in God and the need keep his commandments.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Tangle, posted 12-15-2023 10:11 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by Theodoric, posted 12-16-2023 12:47 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 134 by Percy, posted 12-16-2023 12:56 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 137 by Tangle, posted 12-16-2023 2:50 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 118 days)
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 138 of 174 (914003)
12-17-2023 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by Tangle
12-16-2023 2:50 PM


Re: Pope On A Rope
Tangled writes:
Nope, that's your projection only. There is no atheist perspective. All an atheist is is someone who doesn't believe in god(s). You can't say anything else about them.
As an atheist, you believe/accept that a mindless natural process that has no goal, purpose or direction produced all life on earth.
Such a process is meaningless, yet you claim that human life can have meaning.
Please explain how a meaningless process can produce something that has meaning.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Tangle, posted 12-16-2023 2:50 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Percy, posted 12-17-2023 9:08 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 140 by Omnivorous, posted 12-17-2023 9:50 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 141 by Tangle, posted 12-18-2023 4:18 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 142 by Diomedes, posted 12-18-2023 12:34 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 118 days)
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 143 of 174 (914014)
12-18-2023 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by Omnivorous
12-17-2023 9:50 PM


Re: Pope On A Rope
Omnivorous writes:
First there was no universe, then there was. After that instance of becoming, the universe unfolded to its current state according to natural processes.
First there was no life, then there was ...
​we have found nothing that requires intervention from outside the natural order, nothing that requires mindful purpose.
​First there was no meaning ...
​We have become mindful. We have purpose: we endure, we know things, and we love each other, and that's how meaning came into the world. We made it.
The picture you paint is unfortunately one of delusion and fantasy. To argue that meaning and purpose arose from a meaningless and purposeless universe is so irrational it could only be the result of mental illness (it's sadly reminiscent of the argument that life arose naturally from non-life ... a distorted view of reality which is also the result of mental illness).
If all life is the product of some mindless (meaningless, purposeless) natural process, humans are no more than a collection of atoms - atoms don't have meaning. That being so, the life of a human has no more meaning than the life of a worm or a virus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by Omnivorous, posted 12-17-2023 9:50 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by Omnivorous, posted 12-18-2023 7:57 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 149 by Percy, posted 12-19-2023 6:18 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 118 days)
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 151 of 174 (914025)
12-19-2023 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by Tangle
12-16-2023 2:50 PM


Re: Pope On A Rope
Tangled writes:
the jails are not full of serial killers but sadly they are full of career criminals and the majority of them are Christians.
Yep ... take Pablo Escobar, for example ... a career criminal who was a devout, God-fearing "Catholic"; attended Mass every day. LOL.
Your definition of a "Christian" is disingenuous. A Christian is someone who follows Christ, which means obeying Christ's commandments. Any so-called Christian who leads a life of crime is therefore not a Christian. To such, Christ will say, "I never knew you, depart from me, you evildoers." (Matt 7:23)
I take it that you've given up on your assertion that only atheists can be criminal.
Nice strawman. That's not even close to my assertion, which is that people who fear God don't become career criminals or serial killers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Tangle, posted 12-16-2023 2:50 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-19-2023 10:22 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 153 by Tangle, posted 12-20-2023 2:16 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 154 by Percy, posted 12-20-2023 9:27 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 118 days)
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 155 of 174 (914037)
12-20-2023 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by Tanypteryx
12-19-2023 10:22 PM


Re: Pope On A Rope
Tanypteryx writes:
Oh, bullshit, all they have to do is say "I believe, please forgive me."
If they were stupid enough to believe they can sin with impunity, they would have no fear of God, would they?
I said people who fear God don't become career criminals or serial killers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-19-2023 10:22 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by Percy, posted 12-21-2023 8:10 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 157 by Theodoric, posted 12-21-2023 8:10 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 158 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-21-2023 10:41 AM Dredge has not replied

  
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