Israel Declares War For The First Time Since 1973.

Israel gave Egypt a lot of land during the peace deal with Egypt?Gaza does seem to have become an open-air prison.But Israel gave up Sinai to Egypt.Israel pulled out of Gaza almost 2 decades ago.Gaza is only about 150 sq miles.With millions of people.I only wonder why there are only ever selective demands and questions.(I am not taking sides on the larger issue)

The Nile water can be piped to the border between Egypt and Gaza. Solar panels can be built. Roads can be paved. An electrical grid can be laid out.Public works projects can employ all Gazans - in Egypt and in Gaza.What are you saying about nomads in Sinai?

How many nomads live in Gaza?They own what exactly?Who said Gazans are forced to move to Egypt?I said nobody ever asks Egypt to give land, when it could help the situation, a lot.It was a similar situation on the West Bank. The West Bank had Palestinians who had Jordanian passports, until Jordan ceased claims to the West Bank. Part of the reason Jordan pulled out was that the Palestinians were questioning whether King Hussein should lead the country.The Palestinians have been cut off from the surrounding lands, but it is only Israel that gets criticized for the borders. It does not seem like a broad, balanced, approximation of what has been going on.

go fuck yourself.you did not respond at all when i talked about egypts role.egypt controlled gaza at one point.i could not get to that because you are such an ass holea worthless asshole

This is not just an issue of Israel causing the open-air prison.Blockade of the Gaza Strip

quote:

---

Palestinian
Fatah
Linked with the conflict following his party's loss in the 2006 election, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas approved the Egyptian border restrictions by the new regime, purportedly aimed at protecting Egypt from danger. In 2014 and subsequent years, Abbas supported Egypt's crackdown on smuggling tunnels and welcomed the flooding of the tunnels by Egypt in coordination with the PA.[256][257][258]

​

In 2010, Abbas declared that he opposed lifting the Israeli naval blockade of the Gaza Strip because this would bolster Hamas. Egypt also supported this position.[259]

​

In 2016, Abbas objected to the entrance of Qatari fuel to the Gaza electricity plant via Israel, because his PA would be unable to collect taxes on the fuel.[260]

​

In 2016 most Palestinian parties welcomed Turkish initiatives to end the strict Israeli siege on the Gaza Strip by building a seaport for the movement of people and goods. This step was condemned by Fatah and the PA, a senior Fatah leader saying that his movement would not allow this to happen, while the Fatah Executive Committee said this was an Israeli trick to separate Gaza from the West Bank. In turn a Hamas official condemned the PA's position; "This position proves that the PA is part of the Israeli-led siege which has been imposed on Gaza for ten years".[261]

​

In 2017, the PA government imposed its own sanctions against Gaza, including, among other things, cutting off salaries to thousands of PA employees, as well as financial assistance to hundreds of families in the Gaza Strip. The PA initially said it would stop paying for the electricity and fuel that Israel supplies to the Gaza Strip, but after a year partially backtracked.[262]

---

Again, the border problems are complex.I always hated the tight borders and blockages.But, now we can see the border might have been too soft, on the Israeli side. It can be argued.

You have little reason to laugh when you are a total, complete, snitch.An opportunistic snitch.There is no humor when you completely lack comrodery and decency, with those you check off as opponents.Your lie that I was in favor of expelling Gazans was particularly disgusting.An opportunistic lie, that completely lacked any decency whatsoever.You refused to defend your disgusting lie that I was arguing for stealing homes of Sinai Egyptians also.You are a disgrace.Funny.Hilarious

Keep telling lies about people's positions.Keep letting people know what ab obvious disgrace you areYou never did apply statistics to anything, even though you said that was important, when debating history.My first post - in years - was a request to you to apply statistical analysis.You brought it up yourself.So I gave you evidence,but you only attacked me.I still say you are a piece of shit who will never apply statistics and analysis.Let's see...

Has not happened yet.Multiple threads are open where the analysis is critical to determining what happens and what happened.Including threads about our entire universe

Right before I quoted an ancient text that Richard Carrier said was:"evidence for historicity" of Jesus.You kept refusing to apply Bayesian Analysis.So I quoted Carriers conclusion, which was based on an analysis in his book OHJ

There is a thread that I just started which uses Bayesian Analysis, of experts, to score the odds of the accuracy if a theory of the first cause for the origin of our entire universeSo get to work on shooting down the analysis and the theory itself.

Tell the asshole to stop making hateful posts.He said that I wanted Palestinians of Gaza expelled.He said I wanted to steal homes from Egyptians of the Sinai Peninsula.(I responded politely, and simply pointed out that I wanted Gazans to have at least 5000 square miles of land)
(I also called for public works projects to build the greater Gaza area & end unemployment)He then (in his subsequent post) called me a troll.He is a vile puke if a sorry creature at all.

So lies are allowed.He knows Israel is always being accused (falsely or not)of genocide, ethnic cleansing, land grabs, etc.So he identified me as a supporter of Israel, and then accused me.My actual words are allowed to be twisted into anything Theodoric wants to accuse me of!Disgusting.Absolutely disgusting.

I typically watch Friedman to see science interviews. But YouTube linked to a debate between Benny Morris and Norman Finkelstein.I then followed a link, to see a Natanyahu interview.I was thinking he might make an argument we rarely hear in the United States media - the "proportionality" argument which can often show that Israeli civilian deaths AS A PERCENTAGE OF ITS TOTAL POPULATION are actually higher than our 9/11 2001 death.I did not watch the interview long enough to see if he made a point that needs making.(Netanyahu did point out that he is proud that over 2 million Israeli citizens are non-Jewish Arabs. He said always makes a big point that BOTH people should live together and be vociferously opposes the view that people should not live together.)It seems Israel is accused of allowing a false flag attack on 10/7/2023, and Americans tend to feel Israel is is killing a "disproportionately" large number of Gazans compared to the 10/7 attacks - false flag or not.The "disproportion" argument ALWAYS gets used against Israel, as a way to criticize the responses.But, it's fair to ask:If Israel is "responsible" for its response, then why did Americans not make the same argument against THEIR OWN POLICIES post-9/11?The Afghanistan invasion was a war that never ended, and when IT FINALLY ENDED, we heard nothing but bitching from the American polity and media. The argument was all about how "irresponsible" it was to "cut and run".You can't have it both ways.I'm not making any arguments about the proper policy in Gaza, but I just wish the same standards would be applied to Israel, as one applies elsewhere. There has always been an unfair "double standard" imposed on Israel, and even fairly anti- war folks like myself can't help but notice.I feel the worldwide double standard is what contributed to the 10/7 attacks, and possibly in a major way.

I would say that all of those groups are nationalistic, therefore "anti-Marxist".On the other hand:Israel was founded by very anti-nationalistic folks (like David Ben-Gurion), but Jews have been so utterly killed for "disloyal" sentiment toward nation-states, that is is (frankly) dangerous to say such - it goes unsaid, therefore.Every person on earth has had to negotiate with the prevailing nationalism, so much so that is is a fact that the situation we find ourselves in us SO nationalistic that the lines can easily be blurred when the average person surveys the situation and attempts to rate groups respective ideology.One solid hint as to a political party's actual - as opposed to self-reports - ideology is where they stand with regards to powerful events in world history.THE HOLOCAUSTI was shocked/scared to find out that only 70 percent of Democrats answer "no" when asked if THE HOLOCAUST IS A MYTH.The Economist/You Gov
Dec 2-5, 2023
1500 U.S. Adult CitizensThe Holocaust is a myth
Do you agree or disagree with the following statement?AllYes 7%
No 77%Democrats (525)
Yes 10%
No 71%Independents (563)
Yes 5%
No 78%Republicans (409)
Yes 6%
No 83%Liberals (401)
Yes 7%
No 81%Moderates (464)
Yes 11%
No 69%Conservatives (487)
Yes 6%
No 85%Trump 2020 Voters (503)
Yes 4%
No 87%Biden 2020 Voters (520)
Yes 7%
No 81%All voters (1289)
Yes 6%
No 82%SEPARATE QUESTIONThe Holocaust has been exaggerated
Do you agree or disagree?All (1495)
Yes 9%
No 74%Democrats (524)
Yes 11%
No 70%Independents (562)
Yes 7%
No 74%Republicans (409)
Yes 8%
No 78%Liberals (400)
Yes 8%
No 82%Moderates (462)
Yes 13%
No 65%Conservatives (488)
Yes 6%
No 82%All Voters (1287)
Yes 8%
No 79%Trump 2020 Voters (505)
Yes 6%
No 83%Biden 2020 Voters (518)Yes 7%
No 79%So, only 65% of "moderates" say they disagree with the view that there is a powerful Jewish conspiracy that managed to put lies into our historical works so as to invent Jewish suffering at the hands of a World War 2 enemy.The Holocaust is a myth and Jewish propaganda, according to a lot of people these (dangerous) days.Only about 2/3s of "moderates" and Democrats will disagree.See question 45A. in The Economist/You Gov Dec 2-5,2023 poll.I have never been so jolted by the dangerous conspiracy crap, as I find myself presently.The Democratic party is full of self-described "moderates" who are a total freak show & a danger to us all.

See pp. 102-104.Also, if you do the math yourself, you will notice that over 20% of Democrats under 45 will outright say they agree the Holocaust is a "myth". I suspect that only 50% will say NO.There are 525 poll respondents under 45, and of the total number of people who say "Yes" (104) to THE HE HOLOCAUST IS A MYTH, only 14 of the nearly 1000 over-45 group say "Yes".Democrats have 52 total respondents (out of 515 Democrats of all age groups) who say - outright - the Holocaust is a myth.Assuming half of the 14 over-45 ALL AMERICAN group who says "Yes", "I agree", are Democrats, then:Then 45 of the outright anti-Semites in the party are under 45.There are 308 30-44 poll respondents and 207 18-29 year olds.515 total.Democrats are represented at 35% of all age groups, and probably 40% of the 18 to 44 group, as they typically are that percentage.So about 205 Democrats under 45, were polled.With about 45 who say STRAIGHT OUT the Holocaust was a myth.(So almost a quarter of Democrats under 45 believe the most dangerous, despicable conspiracy theory of all time and the associated perspective of reality that Jews control everything)And understand this is the stronger of the two political parties in the most powerful nation on earth - plus the most active overseas.The party is becoming known for having members who feel they can believe whatever they want, facts be damned.Look at the college campus situation.

quote:

---

Washington Post

​

Denial of the Oct. 7 Hamas Attack is Spreading

​

....

​

Some argue the ambush was staged by the Israeli military to justify an invasion of Gaza. Others say that some 240 hostages Hamas took into Gaza were actually kidnapped by Israel.

​

....

​

Demonstrators have shouted the claim at anti- Israel protests... At a November city council meeting in Oakland, Calif., multiple residents disputed the veracity of the attack.

​

....

​

"Israel murdered their own people on October 7," said Christina Gutierrez, an analyst in the city's housing department, where some in the crowd shouted "antisemitism isn't real."

​

The head of International Relations for Hamas, Basem Naim, has falsely asserted that the group "didn't kill any civilians" when it attacked Israel on Oct.7, calling the claim "Israeli propaganda."

​

....

​

Influencers who question the Holocaust are also among those sowing doubt about Oct. 7.

​

....

​

This newer brand of antisemitism has led a generation of young people to dispute the Holocaust. One in five American adults under 30 say they agree the "Holocaust is a myth," according to a YouGov/Economist poll conducted in the first week of December.

​

....

​

[Joel] Feinstein said that conspiracy theories about Oct. 7 are beginning to bleed into the tumult roiling U.S. universities over the war. On X, activists claim Jewish students and "Zionist" are "staging false flag hate crimes against themselves on college campuses. ...a "contrived campus antisemitism crisis."

---

Actually - among Democrats - about HALF, under 45 years old, think it is possible the Holocaust is a myth.And OVER one in five DEMOCRATS under 45 say the Holocaust certainly is a myth.Under 45!A nationalistic, racist party controls the United States.No wonder the liberal anti-nationalist President of El Salvador came to America and told Republicans to "keep fighting" the "Globalists".Hillary Clinton supported the right wing coup in Honduras, as Secretary of State.Hillary Clinton supported the NATO invasion of Libya - which killed the 54 nation African Union Chairman and destroyed Libya.Democrats outlaw dissent and Central America knows it.Democrats censor political views and use the courts as weapons.Democrats are made up of fascist freaks who sadly control everything and aspire to control everyone with censorship and force.We all dislike Trump, as progressives & anti-nationalistsBut he is not an existential threat, like the fascist Democrats are.(Notice in the same poll, that only 61% of African Americans & 52% of Hispanics disapprove of Trump)
(More Hispanics approve of Trump than Biden)
(Whites approve of Trump only 12 points more than blacks - 46% vs. 34%)
(Only 11% higher disapproval among blacks verses whites)Democrats are a bunch of repulsive fascists and Trump somehow looks quite benign, compared to a bunch of dangerous fascists like the Democrats have clearly become)