|
|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
| EvC Forum active members: 36 (9287 total) |
|
| |
| Sabbathbreaker | |
| Total: 923,957 Year: 699/3,580 Month: 108/163 Week: 2/72 Day: 2/12 Hour: 1/1 |
| Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
| Author | Topic: Israel Declares War For The First Time Since 1973. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
dwise1 Member Posts: 6448 Joined: Member Rating: 6.7
|
I have a feeling that Trump has been more bluster than substance, but we will see. I know Project 2025 is all about installing commissars, but I think that takes more effort and attention than the Trump administration has available. This time is not like the last. The first time it was Trump surrounded, with a few exceptions (eg, Steven "Nosferatu" Miller), by staff who were still loyal to Country and Constitution and Rule of Law and many of whom worked to protect the country from Trump's worst impulses. For example, on 01 June 2020 Trump twice called for mobilizing active duty troops against the demonstrators in Lafayette Square so that he could stage his Satanic display (displaying a Christian symbol, the Bible, upside down) in front of St. John's Episcopal Church and both times that was nixed by Defense Secretary Mark Esper. This time Trump will be surrounded both by sycophants who will only agree with him and will do nothing to hold him back and also by extremists intent on using their positions of power in the new Trump Administration to pursue and prosecute their own agendas. It was the latter who composed Project 2025 which outlines their plans and goals. Trump is far too lazy, illiterate, and just plain stupid to have formulated that 920-page plan, but rather it was created by extreme right-wing ideologues eager to exploit Trump's power. It's like what I seem to recall Bill Maher having said in the 2016 Republican primaries when that race was mainly between Trump and Ted Cruz -- I seem to recall him recommending Trump over Cruz (interspersed with gargling bleach):
from memory: Several years ago I heard a historian's opinion that Hitler was not the architect of the atrocities of the Hitlerzeit ("Hitler Time", the Nazi Regime), but rather a catalyst. Hitler was too lazy and unimaginative to have accomplished all that, but rather he was surrounded by ambitious men who wanted to build their own bases of power and realms within Hitler's Reich. It was those power-hungry ambitious followers who, seeking to draw some of Hitler's power for their own, would try to curry favor by formulating and implementing operations that would appeal to dem Führer. Just like it will be in Trump's incoming administration. BTW, Mike Godwin (Godwin's Law, 1990) has approved of comparing Trump to Hitler:
quote: Last I checked, that article was still behind a pay wall. Also from that same Wikipedia article:
quote: A quote from memory:
In the 60's the world was normal and we took drugs to make it weird. Now the world is weird and we take drugs to try to make it normal.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Taq Member Posts: 10563 Joined:
|
dwise1 writes: This time is not like the last. The first time it was Trump surrounded, with a few exceptions (eg, Steven "Nosferatu" Miller), by staff who were still loyal to Country and Constitution and Rule of Law and many of whom worked to protect the country from Trump's worst impulses. For example, on 01 June 2020 Trump twice called for mobilizing active duty troops against the demonstrators in Lafayette Square so that he could stage his Satanic display (displaying a Christian symbol, the Bible, upside down) in front of St. John's Episcopal Church and both times that was nixed by Defense Secretary Mark Esper. Steven Miller reminds more of Mr. Burns from The Simpsons, but Nosferatu is pretty good too. For the military, I don't think you have to go down the chain of command too far before you hit a general who's just going to say no. They swear an oath to the Constitution, not the President. Elsewhere in government there are going to be plenty of lifers who are more than willing to slow walk anything they don't like. Trump has a 4 year expiration date, so you just have to outlast him.
Several years ago I heard a historian's opinion that Hitler was not the architect of the atrocities of the Hitlerzeit ("Hitler Time", the Nazi Regime), but rather a catalyst. Hitler was too lazy and unimaginative to have accomplished all that, but rather he was surrounded by ambitious men who wanted to build their own bases of power and realms within Hitler's Reich. It was those power-hungry ambitious followers who, seeking to draw some of Hitler's power for their own, would try to curry favor by formulating and implementing operations that would appeal to dem Führer. Just like it will be in Trump's incoming administration. Hitler dissolved the German parliament and became dictator. I don't see that happening here. Other Republicans still want to get re-elected, so I'm hoping there is a red line they won't cross. Their rejection of Gaetz is one sign they might actually have a rudimentary spine remaining. Democrats will also be fully aware of all that is going on within government, so they will at least hold Republicans accountable for what they do and inform the American people of what is going on. Or, it could be I am at the bargaining stage in the 5 stages of grief.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Phat Member Posts: 19039 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.9 |
Virtually no aid has reached besieged north Gaza in 40 days, UN says
From the article: BBC: In my opinion, the hostages are likely casualties of war by now. Israel insists on fully eliminating Hamas in its current form.BBC: It appears that the IDF military strategy is to coerce the Palestinians to reject the Hamas fighters and crawl to Israel for survival. The IDF wants...indeed insists that Hamas and Hezbollah formally surrender (or else they will be killed.) In my mind, Israel would never accept surrender without bringing Hamas and Hezbollah to justice. Will they allow the global community to be as tough on them? (No) At any rate, it is the same old story. As long as the US supports Israel, we place ourselves at odds with the global community.When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! Its all in perspective of the the observer.~Phat
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Phat Member Posts: 19039 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.9 |
No 10 indicates Netanyahu faces arrest if he enters UK
BBC:. Biden calls it "outrageous". The rift between Netanyahu and Yoav Gallant indicates that the wartime "Unity Party" may be breaking up. When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! Its all in perspective of the the observer.~Phat
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Phat Member Posts: 19039 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.9 |
What we know about Israel-Hezbollah ceasefire deal
This sounds like good news, at least better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. From the article: BBC: All I can say is it's about time! A lasting peace in the Middle East is often elusive and fleeting. It is a 60-day ceasefire and will take us into the Trump administration.
quote: It's also worth observing which side violates the terms first and, more importantly, NEXT! One main difference between GAZA and Lebanon is that the Palestinians have no army.When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! Its all in perspective of the the observer.~Phat
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Rahvin Member Posts: 4179 Joined: Member Rating: 8.9 |
It's also worth observing which side violates the terms first and, more importantly, NEXT! One main difference between GAZA and Lebanon is that the Palestinians have no army.
reuters.com Well that didnt take long. And (surprise!) Israel shot first, and "justifies" firing based on unsupported accusations.-->“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.” - Francis Bacon "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers “A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus "...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995... "Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." -->Nihil supernum --> -->
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Minnemooseus Member Posts: 4023 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined:
|
I'm surprised how long this topic has been inactive.
History, Trauma & the Lack of Empathy — Alternative RadioExplains a lot about the relationships between the Israeli and Palestinian people. Search for Gabor Maté History, Trauma and the Lack of Empathy - You might be able to find a free podcast version. Or you can PM me and I can connect you up with the audio via a Google Drive or DropBox link. Moose
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
dronestar Member Posts: 1599 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 6.5
|
Watched Colbert last night. Two candidates for NY mayor, Zohran Mamdani and Brad Lander guested. I like both, particularly Lander. (please god, do not let ANOTHER horrific sexual abuser, Andrew Coumo, win the election again).
Like Bernie Sanders, Lander has credibility (see photos below). We would never ever ever see the current president risk his life for others. Colbert asked both candidates whether Israel has the right to exist. I know New York has a high percentage of Jews that Colbert HAS to fluff. But I wish an equally important question was asked, “Do the people in Palestine have the right to exist?” With the genocide happening in Palestine (55,000+ dead, half are woman and children), that question just cannot be asked.
Edited by dronestar, : photo of Bernie needed to be re-upped. I re-upped two photos for good measure.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Percy Member Posts: 23656 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 7.1
|
In a move reminiscent of the St. Louis (a ship laden with Jewish refugees fleeing German atrocities on the eve of WWII) being denied entry to the United States and having to return to Europe where over 250 of the over 900 passengers subsequently died in the Holocaust, the Trump administration has halted all visas from Gaza, including those for humanitarian and medical aid. See US suspends visitor visas for people from Gaza.
The move apparently resulted from Laura Loomer's criticism that refugees from Gaza "threaten our national security." She specifically criticized Heal Palestine, a nonprofit that provides aid to Palestinian families, especially those with children requiring medical care. --Percy
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Phat Member Posts: 19039 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.9 |
For some, (mainly pragmatic conservatives) , the only way to truly "free" Palestine is to eliminate Hamas. At least that's what Netanyahu and the IDF believe.
What do we know about the Israeli strike on Hamas in Qatar? The question that hangs in the air, among many, is:
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Rahvin Member Posts: 4179 Joined: Member Rating: 8.9
|
At least that's what Netanyahu and the IDF believe. To Netanyahu, every Palestinian and everypne sympathetic to Palestinians counts as Hamas. Don't be naive Phat. Look at the pictures from Gaza. The Palestinian civilians aren't "in the way." This isnt even about "human shields." This is about American 2000 lb bombs dropped indiscriminately on civilian populations when precision weapons have always been available, snipers shooting small children in the head, snipers rotating which body part they shoot. It's about using famine as a weapon of war, intentionally and systematically blocking nearly all aid, allowing in just enough to keep the ignorant appeased but not enough to actually keep Palestinians alive. It's a genocide. An extermination campaign. Don't be a genocide apologist. Watch some of the Israeli politicians making speeches in Hebrew. Here's a hint: if they're speaking English, you are the audience. When they want to speak to Israelis, they speak Hebrew. And they don't say the same things in both languages. Israel wants the "peace" of the Final Solution for the Palestinians whose families lived in that land (peacefully, with Jews and Christians and Muslims) since before Israel was unilaterally created ex nihilo after WWII.-->“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.” - Francis Bacon "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers “A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus "...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995... "Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." -->Nihil supernum --> -->
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Percy Member Posts: 23656 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 7.1
|
Gaza is the modern Warsaw Ghetto, a reversal of history previously unimaginable.
--Percy
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
PaulK Member Posts: 18405 Joined: Member Rating: 6.3 |
Looks like the shooting at food distribution sites in Gaza may not be the IDF after all. BBC
(And I bet that they can’t tell a Christian Palestinian from a Muslim - and don’t care).
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Phat Member Posts: 19039 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.9 |
It's amazing to me how the media tries to form public opinion rather than simply inform the public. I wont deny the evidence of genocide. Feelings in Israel run high. Many Israelis, however, are on your ideological side. To them, Netanyahu is as bad or worse than Trump.
These days, the media *is* the public-at-large. And from what I am reading and hearing, our culture is in a civil war of words. I still support free speech, however.When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2647 Joined: Member Rating: 4.4
|
Netanyahu has since the 70s been advocating for giving all Arabs of the West Bank and Gaza residency. See YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo7Ixmf5ZB4 The United States Ambassador to Israel (2017-2021) is a man of peace. I have talked to him personally, and he indeed supports full residency and rights for the Palestinians of Gaza and the West Bank - with freedom of movement and freedom to jobs - in ALL of Israel. He speaks to Arabs in the West Bank as often as he can. He often crosses the line where Israel has absolutely no policing powers, and will then ask the Sunni Arabs (all that is left in the West Bank, honestly) of the West Bank want. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFyZ6NiWVZA Netanyahu's Minister of Economy is the former Mayor of Jerusalem (2008-2018), Nir Barkat by name. Barkat just attempted - this summer - to get the conservative Palestinian people of Hebron to break from the PLO and join Israel! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAPj8U7waLs&t=104s Seems like the PLO will probably kill peaceful "collaborators". It happened in the past. The idea was good, but doomed.
quote: So much for that latest try. Israel has already offered citizenship to the Golan Heights residents. Israel might be willing to create a safe zone independent nation for the Druze and Kurdish areas of Syria. Even the anti-Israel Sunni Girl admits that the Sunni government of Syria is slaughtering Alawites in the north-west. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNGcDkaDXsk&t=10s Israel keeps trying to bring a unified Israel-Palestine with rights for all, regardless. When the Jordanian Arab Legion took East Jerusalem in 1948, all Jews were expelled from there and the West Bank (17,000 total, and Jews were an outright majority in East Jerusalem in the 1922 British census). Israel took East Jerusalem in 1967 an gave all Muslims and Christians legal blue card residency and a pathway to citizenship. All Jews were driven out of Gaza twice - 1948 and 2005. Even Christians are down to around 700 left in Gaza, though they were over 20% at the start of the 21st century. Seems there actually is a real GENOCIDE in Gaza. No significant numbers left in Gaza for non-Sunnis ------ Jews, Druze, Christians, Shia, etc. The West Bank is over 99% Sunni Muslim. In 1922 Jews were 11% of Palestine, and Christians were also 11%. Druze were over 1%. There are 150,000 Arab Christian residents/citizens of Israel. Only 50,000 left in the West Bank. Israel has an outright majority of humans born in Muslim-majority countries.40% of all Israeli Jews are non-European, non-Spanish Jews. Arab Jews are 19% of the residents of the state of Israel. Arab ethnicity Muslims, Christians, Shia Druze are 21% of Israeli residents. Ashkenazi Jews and non-Arab Sephardic are only 40% of the Israeli population. Israel is a pluralistic society. The West Bank and Gaza is a Sunni Muslim only "Palestine", and it became so ethnically-cleansed only in the post-television world, right before the world's eyes. This is not the historic Palestine. This is the new murderous "Palestine", a land of genocide. That is the problem, in a nutshell. That is the root of the conflict.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2026
