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Author Topic:   Israel Declares War For The First Time Since 1973.
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8593
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 91 of 378 (913298)
10-22-2023 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Phat
10-22-2023 4:11 AM


Re: War Update from BBC
What AZLogic calls revisionist B.S. is an insult from a man who lacks the wisdom to make such a judgement.
My judgement, or lack thereof, has nothing to with the fact that Israel is an overlord installed by Britain and the USofA based on millennia-old religious claims. It was not their land to give. To insist there were legitimate reasons, some lame excuses to destroy a society in place of another, is revisionist bullshit.
Like the Ukrainians, Palestine has been fighting their subjugation by the invasion of a hostile outside power. Except Palestine has been doing so for near 70 years as the world watches an entire society being slowly ethnically cleansed out of existence.
Religion and Spiritual Legend are every bit as important to some people as Physics and Science is to AZPaul3.
Yes, indeed. That is a major part of the problem. You use reasoning and deadly force from religious fantasy to disrupt and disorder entire societies without regard for the reality. The result, Phat, has been more of the blood evil your religion forces onto humanity.
So how is your religion/spiritual legend working out for the mid-east? Bloodshed. Evil and bloodshed. Nothing but war, evil and bloodshed.
The guidance of your religion has produced the only fruit it can. Evil. Do you feel righteous? Do you feel victorious?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Phat, posted 10-22-2023 4:11 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Phat, posted 10-23-2023 10:14 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8593
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 92 of 378 (913309)
10-23-2023 5:38 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by Phat
10-22-2023 4:15 AM


Re: War Update from BBC
What likely irks you is that your party will never have the authority to make anyone or any culture make peace and allow compromise.
My 'party' is humanity, Phat. What irks me is that your religion created this atrocity and now seeks to shed more blood with it. I can see the religious evil spewing from my TV.
The Palestinian people will suffer more devastation now and more repressive cleansing when this war is over. No one will cry. No one will care. They are of no value. Your evil will continue.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Phat, posted 10-22-2023 4:15 AM Phat has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9276
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 93 of 378 (913311)
10-23-2023 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by Phat
10-22-2023 4:15 AM


Re: War Update from BBC
Why do you have the need to embarrass yourself and continually play the fool? You need professional help. Or are you one of the great trolls of all time?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Phat, posted 10-22-2023 4:15 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Percy, posted 10-23-2023 9:55 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22607
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 94 of 378 (913313)
10-23-2023 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by Theodoric
10-23-2023 8:35 AM


Re: War Update from BBC
History is full of tales of brilliant men of enormous accomplishment who as they grow older seem to inexplicably divert down senseless paths. Ken Chesebro, who once worked for Al Gore's campaign, is a very recent example. Fred Hoyle would have won a Nobel Prize for his astrophysical work if he hadn't so embarrassingly clung to ideas about a static universe and later pursued creationism (the OEC variety).
I think people's minds lead them whither they will and that people have no choice but to follow helplessly along. I'm sure we all hope we're one of the ones who get to maintain sense and rationality as we age.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Theodoric, posted 10-23-2023 8:35 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 95 of 378 (913314)
10-23-2023 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by AZPaul3
10-22-2023 12:13 PM


The Mid East War Ramps Up
Summary:
  • Israel says it's targeting Hamas infrastructure, including tunnels, with 320 targets hit in a day
  • Israel's defense minister says the campaign could take "one month, two months, three months... at the end there will be no more Hamas"
  • He also hints at a ground attack - but says before Hamas "meets our tanks and our infantry, they will know the shells from our air force"
  • AZAtheist3 writes:
    Israel is an overlord installed by Britain and the USofA based on millennia-old religious claims.
    Agreed, but Israel was historically on that site for a long time. Some of us believe that those religious claims are valid.
    It was not their land to give.
    You mean Britain and the U.S.? OK...I see your reasoning...but it happened. The Middle East has been in constant bickering ever since.
    To insist there were legitimate reasons, is revisionist bullshit.
    You can complain about the reasons all you want but religion is here to stay. If the planet gets blown up because of humans, it wont just be religion that is the problem. Whether you have religious reasons or not, one group of humans in power will decide things that another group, country, or ethnic group disagrees with. That has been going on as long as we have had recorded History. Some time in the future, perhaps China will be deciding who has the most right to stay somewhere. The US won't like it.
    The guidance of your religion has produced the only fruit it can. Evil.
    You obviously are against Jesus Christ, what with being an anti theist and all. Hamas is no less guilty than the Israeli military. The million dollar question is whether Hamas can be rooted out of Gaza. You cant expect Israel to simply turn the other cheek after what happened can you?
    For balance, lets see what Al-Jazeera news has to say:
  • Palestinian Prime Minister Mohammed Shtayyeh has accused Western nations of giving Israel a “licence to kill” in its war against Gaza.
    “We condemn the statements that constitute a licence to kill and give Israel political cover to commit massacres and spread destruction in Gaza,” he said.

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 91 by AZPaul3, posted 10-22-2023 12:13 PM AZPaul3 has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 96 by AZPaul3, posted 10-23-2023 10:33 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 97 by Percy, posted 10-23-2023 11:38 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 98 by Theodoric, posted 10-23-2023 12:01 PM Phat has not replied

      
    AZPaul3
    Member
    Posts: 8593
    From: Phoenix
    Joined: 11-06-2006
    Member Rating: 4.2


    (1)
    Message 96 of 378 (913315)
    10-23-2023 10:33 AM
    Reply to: Message 95 by Phat
    10-23-2023 10:14 AM


    Re: The Mid East War Ramps Up
    You obviously are against Jesus Christ ...
    Who?

    Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 95 by Phat, posted 10-23-2023 10:14 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Percy
    Member
    Posts: 22607
    From: New Hampshire
    Joined: 12-23-2000
    Member Rating: 4.7


    (1)
    Message 97 of 378 (913316)
    10-23-2023 11:38 AM
    Reply to: Message 95 by Phat
    10-23-2023 10:14 AM


    Re: The Mid East War Ramps Up
    Phat writes:
    You obviously are against Jesus Christ...
    Why do you keep repeating this same mistake over and over again. Non-Christians and atheists are not "against Jesus Christ." Believing there was never any such person as Jesus Christ is no different than believing there was never any such person as Robin Hood. Non-believers in Robin Hood are no more "against Robin Hood" than non-believers in Jesus Christ are "against Jesus Christ." How much sense would it make to be against someone you believe fictional?
    Even severe criticisms of Christianity do not mean that one is "against Christianity." Issuing criticisms does make one against something. For example, all the recent criticisms of the House of Representatives do not mean people are "against the House of Representatives," so why should it be assumed that criticizing Christianity means one is "against Christianity."
    There are definitely things people are against. Many people are against dictatorships, abortion, budget deficits and genocide, but people are not often against things they believe fictional. Were zombies and vampires real I would definitely be against them, but they're not. And neither is Jesus Christ.
    --Percy

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 95 by Phat, posted 10-23-2023 10:14 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 99 by dwise1, posted 10-23-2023 1:23 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

      
    Theodoric
    Member
    Posts: 9276
    From: Northwest, WI, USA
    Joined: 08-15-2005
    Member Rating: 2.7


    Message 98 of 378 (913317)
    10-23-2023 12:01 PM
    Reply to: Message 95 by Phat
    10-23-2023 10:14 AM


    Re: The Mid East War Ramps Up
    And the idiocy continues. Just stop.

    What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

    Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

    "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

    If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 95 by Phat, posted 10-23-2023 10:14 AM Phat has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 103 by Adminnemooseus, posted 10-23-2023 8:08 PM Theodoric has not replied

      
    dwise1
    Member
    Posts: 5969
    Joined: 05-02-2006
    Member Rating: 5.2


    Message 99 of 378 (913322)
    10-23-2023 1:23 PM
    Reply to: Message 97 by Percy
    10-23-2023 11:38 AM


    Re: The Mid East War Ramps Up
    I think that Christian wrong idea comes from one of Jesus' first false dichotomies:
    quote:
    Matthew 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that
    gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
    In their thinking, there is no neutral middle ground; either you are with Jesus Christ or you are against him. No room for the vast majority of "who cares?". Strict black-or-white thinking that ignores the seas of gray in between.
    Yet another case of Christians rejecting reality. By their own logic, since they are not with reality then they are against reality.

    "Reality. What a concept!" -- Robin Williams at the Roxy (HBO special, c. 1980)
     

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 97 by Percy, posted 10-23-2023 11:38 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 100 by GDR, posted 10-23-2023 2:19 PM dwise1 has replied

      
    GDR
    Member
    Posts: 6202
    From: Sidney, BC, Canada
    Joined: 05-22-2005


    Message 100 of 378 (913324)
    10-23-2023 2:19 PM
    Reply to: Message 99 by dwise1
    10-23-2023 1:23 PM


    Re: The Mid East War Ramps Up
    dwise1 writes:
    In their thinking, there is no neutral middle ground; either you are with Jesus Christ or you are against him. No room for the vast majority of "who cares?". Strict black-or-white thinking that ignores the seas of gray in between.
    Let's extend that quote a bit.
    quote:
    Matthew 12:30 “Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.
    31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
    32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
    33 “Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit.
    34 You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.
    35 A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him.
    When you read further it isn't about what we give intellectual assent to. It is about what we base our life on. Do we live our life on the message of the Holy Spirit, which is at it's core is the Golden Rule, or do we live a life that focuses on the self even at the expense of others.
    You are doing what a lot of fundamentalists do by pulling one verse out of the Bible without context and using as a proof text.

    He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

    Micah 6:8


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 99 by dwise1, posted 10-23-2023 1:23 PM dwise1 has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 101 by dwise1, posted 10-23-2023 3:16 PM GDR has not replied
     Message 102 by Tangle, posted 10-23-2023 3:37 PM GDR has replied
     Message 104 by Phat, posted 10-23-2023 9:06 PM GDR has replied

      
    dwise1
    Member
    Posts: 5969
    Joined: 05-02-2006
    Member Rating: 5.2


    (1)
    Message 101 of 378 (913326)
    10-23-2023 3:16 PM
    Reply to: Message 100 by GDR
    10-23-2023 2:19 PM


    Re: The Mid East War Ramps Up
    You are doing what a lot of fundamentalists do by pulling one verse out of the Bible without context and using as a proof text.
    As they say (eg, SS-Standartenführer Hans Landa): "To hunt a weasel, you need to think like a weasel."
    In order to understand why fundamentalists say the strange things that they do, you have to understand how they think. That means that instead of reading their "sources" correctly and in context, you need to follow their incorrect and out-of-context reading.
    Re-reading what I had written, you will notice that I had qualified that as "in their thinking."
    Though there is the added complication that they don't think about what they believe, but rather they just accept without comprehension what they are told to believe. It is difficult to analyze thought processes that never take place.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 100 by GDR, posted 10-23-2023 2:19 PM GDR has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 106 by Phat, posted 10-23-2023 9:21 PM dwise1 has not replied

      
    Tangle
    Member
    Posts: 9530
    From: UK
    Joined: 10-07-2011
    Member Rating: 4.9


    Message 102 of 378 (913327)
    10-23-2023 3:37 PM
    Reply to: Message 100 by GDR
    10-23-2023 2:19 PM


    Re: The Mid East War Ramps Up
    Yeh right. God is supposed to be forgiveness. Just don't fuck with the Holy Spirit because he doesn't do that forgiveness stuff. Well fuck the Holy Spirit.
    You can't believe this fantasy stuff, surely?

    Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

    "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
    - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 100 by GDR, posted 10-23-2023 2:19 PM GDR has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 105 by Phat, posted 10-23-2023 9:13 PM Tangle has replied
     Message 119 by GDR, posted 10-25-2023 5:36 PM Tangle has replied

      
    Adminnemooseus
    Administrator
    Posts: 3977
    Joined: 09-26-2002


    Message 103 of 378 (913328)
    10-23-2023 8:08 PM
    Reply to: Message 98 by Theodoric
    10-23-2023 12:01 PM


    Admin warning to Theodoric
    And the idiocy continues. Just stop.
    Variations of the above one-liner is largely typical of your responses to Phat. Your idiocy continues. Please stop - You are irritating the Amoose.
    Adminnemooseus

    Or something like that©.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 98 by Theodoric, posted 10-23-2023 12:01 PM Theodoric has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18388
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 104 of 378 (913329)
    10-23-2023 9:06 PM
    Reply to: Message 100 by GDR
    10-23-2023 2:19 PM


    Religion vs Relationship
    You have often mentioned relationship with the heart of Jesus rather than some intellectual data or religious dogma. You have also objected to religion (Biblianity) vs relationship with the character of Jesus. Lets go with this premise a bit.
    AZPaul3 assumes that all religion is evil to the core. Many of the peanut gallery, while not siding with him, mention Israel as the aggressor and the Palestinians as victims. I can fully see their argument. Televised TV images are powerful and compelling. I would argue, however, that reality does not need religion in order to be cruel to our fellow man. Jews and Christians are not alike in one way. Jews are Jewish by ethnicity and can choose whether or not to be Jewish by profession of belief. Christians are not Christian by ethnicity, so we are essentially people of every tribe tongue and nation who have chosen to profess belief in Jesus Christ.
    When everyone on this forum sees Phat behaving horribly, they challenge his(my) profession...and quite rightly so. They cant challenge my ethnicity. I am not behaving badly because I am a WASP. When Israel(Jews) behave badly, it is not because of the profession of Judaism. As I have said before, some are atheists. They are, however, still Jews and are united due to a national identity and not (at this time) a religious identity.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 100 by GDR, posted 10-23-2023 2:19 PM GDR has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 115 by Percy, posted 10-24-2023 6:27 PM Phat has replied
     Message 122 by GDR, posted 10-25-2023 6:02 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18388
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 105 of 378 (913330)
    10-23-2023 9:13 PM
    Reply to: Message 102 by Tangle
    10-23-2023 3:37 PM


    Re: The Mid East War Ramps Up
    Tangle writes:
    Yeh right. God is supposed to be forgiveness. Just don't fuck with the Holy Spirit because he doesn't do that forgiveness stuff. Well fuck the Holy Spirit.
    Most people dont give spirits a second glance. After all, the concept is more of a vibe than an observable reality. The Holy Spirit prompts the hearts and minds of all people to forgive and reflect. You can ignore Him if you choose, but be aware that other spirits will cling on to you that you also cant see. Your behavior will herald their possible presence.
    Tangle writes:
    You can't believe this fantasy stuff, surely?
    Would it make a difference if I did?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 102 by Tangle, posted 10-23-2023 3:37 PM Tangle has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 107 by Tangle, posted 10-24-2023 2:55 AM Phat has replied

      
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