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Author
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Topic: State Execution in the USA
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dwise1
Member Posts: 5952 Joined: 05-02-2006 Member Rating: 5.2
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Re: An Eye For An Eye
... and unjust convictions. I remember an NPR article about the role of remorse in court. A strong factor in sentencing is how much remorse the convicted individual displays, such that a person showing little or no remorse gets a stricter sentence. The problem is that a person who has been wrongly convicted is unable to show remorse. Because they didn't do it. How can anyone show remorse for something that they didn't do. As a result, people who are wrongly convicted get the harshest sentences.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 29 by Omnivorous, posted 02-01-2024 8:57 AM | | Omnivorous has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 32 by Omnivorous, posted 02-01-2024 10:55 AM | | dwise1 has not replied |
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Omnivorous
Member Posts: 3991 From: Adirondackia Joined: 07-21-2005 Member Rating: 7.5
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Message 32 of 80 (914762)
02-01-2024 10:55 AM
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Reply to: Message 31 by dwise1
02-01-2024 10:25 AM
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Re: An Eye For An Eye
dwise1 writes: As a result, people who are wrongly convicted get the harshest sentences. And are routinely denied parole for the same reason. Economic status plays a large role, and you don't have to be poor to be unable to pay for an effective defense. Overwhelmed public defenders routinely counsel their clients to plead guilty to a lesser charge, regardless of innocence, because it's a better bet than a trial. So you can get all the justice you can afford. As Trump has shown, you can evade all the justice you can afford, too.
"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 31 by dwise1, posted 02-01-2024 10:25 AM | | dwise1 has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 33 of 80 (914763)
02-01-2024 11:11 AM
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Reply to: Message 30 by Percy
02-01-2024 8:57 AM
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Re: An Eye For An Eye
Hi Percy,
Percy writes: Just to be clear, you're saying that the taking of a life is wrong and that the punishment should involve the taking of another life. No. I am not saying anything. I am asking a question. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 30 by Percy, posted 02-01-2024 8:57 AM | | Percy has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 43 by Percy, posted 02-02-2024 9:25 AM | | ICANT has replied |
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Rahvin
Member Posts: 4046 Joined: 07-01-2005 Member Rating: 8.3
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Message 34 of 80 (914764)
02-01-2024 11:31 AM
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Reply to: Message 26 by ICANT
02-01-2024 2:35 AM
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Re: Capital Punishment
quote:
At the bottom of your signature is a quote from the KJV Bible.
Do you believe that verse and what it is talking about or is it just there for the words recorded in the KJV Bible.
If you have never read the four verses preceding it I will supply them for you.
That way you can know what is being discussed.
I used to be a devout Christian ICANT, I have read the Bible. I know what the quote is intended to talk about. I no longer believe any supernaturalism. I don't think there's any such thing as gods or an afterlife. Reading the Bible is a fundamentally different experience for me - more akin to reading fiction. The context of the quote is not what resonates with me any more. As with reading any work of fiction, a quote can resonate with meaning even if the context is all make-believe and pretend. EDIT: Like a parable, actually. You view specific parts of the Bible as parables, fictional stories told by real people to teach a lesson. I now view all religious texts, including the Bible in its entirety, as parable. /EDIT I like the quote as it is, out of context, because I think that most causes of death can be avoided technologically, eventually. It's a statement of hope, that if humanity works hard enough to understand the mechanisms that cause aging and cancer and other causes of death, that perhaps people won't have to say goodbye to their loved ones any more. It's also a statement on the value of a person, and an aspirational hope that humanity can learn to stop killing each other. Consider it in the context of the Gandalf quote, also in my sig. People are neither good nor evil. People do things that help other people, and things that hurt other people. People can learn to be better, given time and opportunity and help. When we kill, we take away the opportunity and time for that person to be better. And we take another person away from people who loved them. Not in my sig, but another quote from fiction, this one from Batman: Year One: "Even scum have families." I don't actually believe that people are "scum" as some enduring permanent attribute, but I believe that taking people away from their loved ones causes harm and pain and loss. There are some countries that have shifted their view of justice away from punishment and vengeance toward rehabilitation. Even murder doesn't carry a life sentence in some of them. If you are observed to continue to be a threat to yourself or others, they can use indefinite mental health detention until that situation changes. They give people, even murderers, the time and opportunity and help to become better, to stop hurting others. In doing so, those societies have also become better. Not just in a feels-good sense - they have less crime, lower rates of repeat offenders, and spend less money per capita on their criminal justice systems. Edited by Rahvin, : Realized a better word for conveying an idea to Christians.
“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.” - Francis Bacon"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers “A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus "...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995... "Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
1 Corinthians 15:26King James Version (KJV) Nihil supernum
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 26 by ICANT, posted 02-01-2024 2:35 AM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 37 by ICANT, posted 02-01-2024 1:30 PM | | Rahvin has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Re: An Eye For An Eye
Hi Omnivorous,
Omnivorous writes: I would rather pay for humane incarceration than dip my hands in the blood you are so eager to spill. I was asking you for a reason they should not give their life for the one they took. Since 1973 there have been 1,582 death row inmates executed. Since 1973 there have been 195 death row inmates exonerated. There is no way to know how many of those 1582 were innocent. I could not find the numbers of murders committed since 1973. But in 2021 there were 22,536 murders committed and in 2022 there were 21,156 murders committed. In 1990 there were 23,438 murders committed In 1973 there was 1296 death sentences. That leaves 286 in the 48 years up to 2022. now if we take an average of say 20,000 murders per year for 48 years we would have 960,000 murders committed and 1582 executed which is 1 execution for every 606.82 murders. Just food for thought. Now I will ask more question's. Where is the sympathy for the 960,000 people who were murdered? Where is the sympathy for the millions of children who are left without a father/mother which ever the case may be? Where is the sympathy for the parents of the children that were murdered? That is 960,000 innocent people who have been executed by their personal assassin, where is the outrage?
Omnivorous writes: I would rather pay for humane incarceration How about paying for raising all the children and all the other expenses incurred by the families due to these murders? I would just like to hear what you and anybody else that wants to answer think about these things. In my lifetime I have had to deal with some of these things being a pastor and it was not fun. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 29 by Omnivorous, posted 02-01-2024 8:57 AM | | Omnivorous has replied |
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Rahvin
Member Posts: 4046 Joined: 07-01-2005 Member Rating: 8.3
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Message 36 of 80 (914766)
02-01-2024 1:29 PM
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Reply to: Message 35 by ICANT
02-01-2024 1:00 PM
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Re: An Eye For An Eye
quote:
Where is the sympathy for the 960,000 people who were murdered?
Where is the sympathy for the millions of children who are left without a father/mother which ever the case may be?
Where is the sympathy for the parents of the children that were murdered?
I sympathize for them exactly as much as I sympathize for those accused of taking away their loved ones. I sympathize for their families exactly as much as I sympathize for the families of the accused. More loss doesn't bring anyone back. The difference is that some of the loss has already happened, and some of the loss may yet be prevented. The difference is that I had no agency in the decision of the accused, events that already happened, but I have some very small agency in the determination of public policy and what we should do as a society.
quote:
How about paying for raising all the children and all the other expenses incurred by the families due to these murders?
I think that we as a society should ensure that all parents have enough resources to raise all children. I don't like things like "child support" or punitive damages like this - you wind up with imbalances and mistakes and animosity. I'd rather we just commit, as a society, to ensure that every child has the resources to flourish. In case that's too vague, I mean taxpayer-funded stipends per child to all parents, no qualifications needed other than that a child is in the care of the parent. That's the simple version, a web forum post doesnt allow for the complexity of an actual policy draft.
quote:
In my lifetime I have had to deal with some of these things being a pastor and it was not fun.
I'm sure it wasnt. Loss of a loved one is some of the worst pain you can feel, and anyone with an ounce of empathy will feel its echo. Would it surprise you to know that there's an ordained Christian minister that I still consider to be a hero and role-model, who has always been helpful to people, including helping people deal with and process difficult things like loss?
“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.” - Francis Bacon"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers “A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus "...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995... "Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
1 Corinthians 15:26King James Version (KJV) Nihil supernum
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 35 by ICANT, posted 02-01-2024 1:00 PM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 40 by ICANT, posted 02-01-2024 1:59 PM | | Rahvin has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 37 of 80 (914767)
02-01-2024 1:30 PM
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Reply to: Message 34 by Rahvin
02-01-2024 11:31 AM
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Re: Capital Punishment
Hi Rahvin,
Rahvin writes: People can learn to be better, given time and opportunity and help. 70 years ago I thought the same thing. Today when I see the decay of society that has taken place in that 70 years I am doubtful. It seems the more help people get the worse they get. It reminds me of the story of the Israelites in the old testament. We have made great strides in Tech knowledge and the medical field. In the production of food we have devolved into a money making racket and producing food that is not fit to eat because of additives that is killing the people. Where are we heading? Who knows? God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 34 by Rahvin, posted 02-01-2024 11:31 AM | | Rahvin has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 39 by Rahvin, posted 02-01-2024 1:46 PM | | ICANT has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 38 of 80 (914768)
02-01-2024 1:38 PM
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Reply to: Message 16 by ICANT
01-31-2024 8:43 PM
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Re: Capital Punishment
ICANT:
The UK had the most barbaric capital punishment method I could think of until the middle of the 18th century and that was burning at the stake. The punishment for heresy was burning at the stake in the end of the 16th century. That was simply because they believed differently than the Church of England.
Just a reminder of your countries ways.
And we stopped. Because it's a fundamental wrong. You guys still do it and seemingly want to still do it. But you don't want to do it quickly. It took you 30 years for this one. No country in Europe will deport a criminal to the USA who is likely to be found guilty there of a capital crime. Because it's simply a wrong. Not to say violently un-Christian. Edited by Tangle, .
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 16 by ICANT, posted 01-31-2024 8:43 PM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 49 by ICANT, posted 02-02-2024 3:06 PM | | Tangle has not replied |
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Rahvin
Member Posts: 4046 Joined: 07-01-2005 Member Rating: 8.3
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Message 39 of 80 (914769)
02-01-2024 1:46 PM
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Reply to: Message 37 by ICANT
02-01-2024 1:30 PM
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Re: Capital Punishment
quote:
Today when I see the decay of society that has taken place in that 70 years I am doubtful. It seems the more help people get the worse they get. It reminds me of the story of the Israelites in the old testament.
The path to salvation is not a straight one, ICANT. People stumble and fall. We do it even more collectively than individually. But progress also happens on more than one axis. I haven't been around 70 years yet myself, but in my lifetime I've see both an increase in hatred, and the rise of voices shouting for tolerance and support. More war, and more cries for peace. Not everyone does learn to be better. But every one can learn. quote:
We have made great strides in Tech knowledge and the medical field. In the production of food we have devolved into a money making racket and producing food that is not fit to eat because of additives that is killing the people.
On this we actually agree, and I'll go a step further to say that much of the tech and medical fields are also "money making rackets" that are killing people. Unchecked, unregulated greed always causes harm. And yet I also see so many young people, more than I've ever seen before actually getting involved, demanding adherence to the values that your generation instilled in mine: Fair treatment. Compassion. Freedom. Peace. Helpfulness. Our systems are pretty badly broken. Our people still have a lot of potential.
“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.” - Francis Bacon"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers “A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus "...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995... "Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
1 Corinthians 15:26King James Version (KJV) Nihil supernum
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 37 by ICANT, posted 02-01-2024 1:30 PM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 48 by ICANT, posted 02-02-2024 2:55 PM | | Rahvin has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 40 of 80 (914770)
02-01-2024 1:59 PM
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Reply to: Message 36 by Rahvin
02-01-2024 1:29 PM
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Re: An Eye For An Eye
Hi Rahvin,
Rahvin writes: Would it surprise you to know that there's an ordained Christian minister that I still consider to be a hero and role-model, who has always been helpful to people, including helping people deal with and process difficult things like loss? I would hope you would consider me one of them. I always worked and I made a lot of money as a contractor while building churches and pastoring small churches until they could support a pastor. We live in a small 2 bedroom house which is paid for, on our social security as we helped everybody who came to us for help including churches. We have a vehicle that is paid for and we have no debt. My wife and I have great health for 84 year olds. My short term memory is failing me and that is the reason I no longer pastor. I do still preach. I even help my neighbors in the things I am skilled in, I can still fix most anything. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 36 by Rahvin, posted 02-01-2024 1:29 PM | | Rahvin has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 41 by Rahvin, posted 02-01-2024 2:29 PM | | ICANT has replied |
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Rahvin
Member Posts: 4046 Joined: 07-01-2005 Member Rating: 8.3
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Message 41 of 80 (914771)
02-01-2024 2:29 PM
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Reply to: Message 40 by ICANT
02-01-2024 1:59 PM
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Re: An Eye For An Eye
quote:
I would hope you would consider me one of them.
I don't know you well enough for that, ICANT, and our interactions havent always been agreeable. It's Fred Rogers, actually. An ordained Presbyterian minister, the lessons he taught and example he gave weren't only for kids. They were made for kids to learn them, with songs and puppets, but the lessons have value throughout life. And I can't imagine Mr Rogers saying that someone should be killed, even for a terrible crime. And I imagine him wanting to help everyone involved - the loved ones of the victim, the person accused, the loved ones of the accused.
“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.” - Francis Bacon"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers “A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus "...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995... "Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
1 Corinthians 15:26King James Version (KJV) Nihil supernum
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 40 by ICANT, posted 02-01-2024 1:59 PM | | ICANT has replied |
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Omnivorous
Member Posts: 3991 From: Adirondackia Joined: 07-21-2005 Member Rating: 7.5
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Message 42 of 80 (914777)
02-01-2024 10:35 PM
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Reply to: Message 35 by ICANT
02-01-2024 1:00 PM
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Re: An Eye For An Eye
ICANT writes: Where is the sympathy for the 960,000 people who were murdered? Where is the sympathy for the millions of children who are left without a father/mother which ever the case may be? Where is the sympathy for the parents of the children that were murdered? That is 960,000 innocent people who have been executed by their personal assassin, where is the outrage? For my part, the sympathy and outrage are here in the same heart that would not take another life, and in the mind that sees no good reason for it and many against. Why are these the questions you ask? Why don't you ask what good will it do to kill another? Is it good to slake the thirst for vengeance in a victimized family? Is that how you pastored the grief-stricken Christian families? Did you urge them to nurse their anger and to pray for the death of another? So ... would it be best if the bereft children killed the guilty party directly? Just asking.
ICANT writes: How about paying for raising all the children and all the other expenses incurred by the families due to these murders? Do you genuinely expect death penalty opponents to be against generous support for families in need? Please. There are those strongly opposed to public assistance who also hold strong views on the death penalty, but it's not my camp.
"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 35 by ICANT, posted 02-01-2024 1:00 PM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 46 by ICANT, posted 02-02-2024 1:05 PM | | Omnivorous has not replied |
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Percy
Member Posts: 22505 From: New Hampshire Joined: 12-23-2000 Member Rating: 4.9
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Message 43 of 80 (914782)
02-02-2024 9:25 AM
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Reply to: Message 33 by ICANT
02-01-2024 11:11 AM
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Re: An Eye For An Eye
ICANT writes: No. I am not saying anything. I am asking a question. Obviously untrue. For some strange reason known only to yourself you're denying the position you've taken. Here's a fuller quote of what was said:
ICANT in Message 11 writes: AZPaul3 in Message 10 writes: I'd say this represents a major share of the voting population. As usual religion, specifically christianity, leads the death cult. If the life of a person is removed by a person why should that person not need to pay for that life with their own? Evolution would not support such a view. If you believe it would just go out in the woods with a gun and one bullet and kill a bear's cub and see what happens. That bear will maul you to pieces until your life is gone. This question of your first sentence, and your questions in other messages, are rhetorical, not inquisitive. Any doubt that you have a position is removed by your argument in the following paragraph. You may as well attempt to argue, "Well wouldn't that be stupid?" is just a question and not a statement. Using a style that phrases arguments as questions doesn't turn them into actual questions. You clearly have a position and an opinion and are not "asking a question." Here's another example:
ICANT in Message 35 writes: Rahvin in Message 34 writes: People can learn to be better, given time and opportunity and help. When we kill, we take away the opportunity and time for that person to be better. And we take another person away from people who loved them. I was asking you for a reason they should not give their life for the one they took. You're obviously arguing against preserving life and favoring fatal punishments. So, again, just to be clear, which I know you like to avoid, you're saying that the taking of a life is wrong and that the punishment should involve the taking of another life. --Percy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 33 by ICANT, posted 02-01-2024 11:11 AM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 45 by ICANT, posted 02-02-2024 11:54 AM | | Percy has replied |
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dronestar
Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: 11-19-2008 Member Rating: 7.0
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Message 44 of 80 (914784)
02-02-2024 10:44 AM
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Reply to: Message 41 by Rahvin
02-01-2024 2:29 PM
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Mister Rogers
Hey Rahvin, You might find it amusing that I too push Fred Rogers as a role model . . . for adults. During tRump’s re-election run, I had my letter below printed in my local paper (the paper unfortunately censored the adultery and sex abuse examples I also included):
Some parents embrace Mister Rogers as a role model for their children. Other mothers or fathers eschew Mister Rogers’ integrity, inclusiveness and positivity for a different type of role model. For example, some parents choose a “role model” that teaches their child to always lie … pathologically. Some parents prefer a “role-model” that issues executive orders ridding the country of regulations that protect their own children from mercury or lead poisoning. A “role-model” that instructs their child to steal and encourage businesses not to pay owed wages is sometimes applauded. And some mothers and fathers nod approvingly to a “role-model” that teaches their child to bully the weak, and mock the handicapped. Unsurprisingly, a recent Washington Post review found “kids as young as six mimicking the president’s insults and the cruel way he delivers them.” Perhaps some parents need Mister Rogers as a role model more than their children.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 41 by Rahvin, posted 02-01-2024 2:29 PM | | Rahvin has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 45 of 80 (914785)
02-02-2024 11:54 AM
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Reply to: Message 43 by Percy
02-02-2024 9:25 AM
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Re: An Eye For An Eye
Hi Percy,
Percy writes: So, again, just to be clear, which I know you like to avoid, you're saying that the taking of a life is wrong and that the punishment should involve the taking of another life. In my lifetime I have had to council people who have been on both sides of the fence. Families that have lost members to murder, and families who had a son convicted of murder and one suicide a good friend who had a 6 year old daughter and a loving wife, but he was addicted to Alcohol and he convinced himself that they would be better off without him. that was the hardest thing I ever had to do was to get that child to forgive her dad. Trying to get a mother whose son is on death row to understand that her son did in fact kill a person is a pretty hard job when her son could not do such a thing. Her son was standing over a body with a gun in his hand that had fired the bullet that killed the deceased when he was apprehended. Then there was a family that stands out in my mind where the husband was killed leaving a wife and 4 children without a husband, father, and bread winner. Two of the children were in school, first and third grades the others were two and four years old. At that time there was no such thing as a food bank to get food as there is today. The mother was able to get $200 a month to pay a mortgage, electric bill, water bill, food bill, clothes and shoes for the kids which run a little under $600 per month. The hardest thing was trying to explain to these children why daddy didn't come home at night and play with them like he used to do. The Mother had got herself together put her feelings aside and decided she had to go to work. Her mother would come over and sit with the little ones and some times take them to her house. But when Mommy got home she had to fix supper do laundry, All the things she was doing before she had to go to work. We had some pretty good people in our church and several of them made anonymous donations and we paid off her mortgage. Some of the ladies would go over and help her clean every now and then. As the children got older the job of getting them to forgive the man who took their father from them got a little easier until they forgave him. That was the first thing that all of them had to do to be able to get on with the rest of their life. Now as far as the murderer is concerned I would like to see our government have a facility where these men could be put where they could have a job, make money and support the families of the deceased. It could be a facility where they could build modular homes, or mobile homes that could be used for the homeless. It could be 48" concrete sewer lines that is used in road building or some other thing. I am sure they could come up with something. But then somebody would complain that was cruel and unusual punishment. Anyway that is the end of my rant. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 43 by Percy, posted 02-02-2024 9:25 AM | | Percy has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 52 by Percy, posted 02-03-2024 8:57 AM | | ICANT has replied |
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