The Historical Jesus: Did He Create the Universe?

We've done Tacitus, when are you going to show that the historical Jesus created the universe?

Panties? Really, a Roman named Panties? He invented underwear, right?

Long ago we granted that for the sake of discussion in this thread the historical Jesus is a real person. Your task now is to show that the historical Jesus created the universe.ICANT began this weird thread, and when he abandoned it you for some reason decided to take his place. Is his claim that it was the historical Jesus who created the universe one you really want to support? You mentioned faith earlier. Isn't it more the Jesus of faith who you believe created the universe?--Percy

Marco Polo probably existed but he was certainly a fabulist.

I heard he was a swimmer.

Percy, another non-Biblical source concerning Christ and
Christians was recorded by Pliny the Younger, Roman
Governor of Bithynia.Pliny wrote to Emperor Trajan asking for his counsel on
dealing with the early Christian community.Pliny conducted trials of suspected Christians who
appeared before Him. It is suspected that they refused to
acknowledge and worship Roman gods.In any case, after three chances to show their innocence
they were executed.Pliny went on to say that investigations often revealed
harmless practices. However, Pliny considered them to be
depraved, and filled with excessive superstition.Pliny was concerned that Christian gatherings could
serve as a potential starting point for sedition.This is an abbreviated reply of Pliny and Christians.

For this discussion it is assumed that Jesus was a historical personage.--Percy

...and we've done Pliny...

Was this before or after Jesus created the Universe?​ Was this before or after Jesus created the Universe?​ Was this before or after Jesus created the Universe? Was this before or after Jesus created the Universe? Was this before or after Jesus created the Universe?​

Percy, you stated:"For this discussion it is assumed that Jesus was a
historical personage."***This is exactly the point that ICANT, and several others
are making.Jesus was and still is a alive.The Bible confirms this. Since the Bible is right about Jesus
living and breathing, we must not readily dismiss the other
claims that His Apostles and Prophets made about Him.We must also look at the OT prophecies made concerning
Jesus and their actual fulfillment in the NT.I get a chuckle when reading Paulk's reply concerning
the fulfillment of these predictions.The guy has a deep hate for Jesus, and this hate alters
his cognitive reasoning. He hates Jesus because Satan
has painted an extreme negative image of Him.I used to have this same negative image of Him. I had
this image because I allowed others, including pastors,
preachers, etc... to shape my thinking.God will reveal Himself and His plans for humanity, if one
will seek Him with all their heart--all of it.To accept that the Bible has been proven right about the
fact that Jesus lived, while denying the rest of what the
Bible teaches, is using false and premeditated logic.

Are you ever going to tell us whether the historical Jesus created the universe? Ever?

Please proceed with your evidence and arguments that the historical Jesus created the universe.--Percy

To reiterate: Historical Jesus

Wiki:

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The term "historical Jesus" refers to the life and teachings of Jesus as interpreted through critical historical methods, in contrast to what are traditionally religious interpretations It also considers the historical and cultural contexts in which Jesus lived. Virtually all scholars of antiquity accept that Jesus was a historical figure, and the idea that Jesus was a mythical figure has been consistently rejected by the scholarly consensus as a fringe theory. Scholars differ about the beliefs and teachings of Jesus as well as the accuracy of the biblical accounts, with only two events being supported by nearly universal scholarly consensus: Jesus was baptized and Jesus was crucified.

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Based on this working definition, the "Historical Jesus" (was) widely considered to have once existed, been baptized,and was crucified. Thus the short answer is NO. The Jesus of Christian faith and belief was (and is) Gods eternal character. A Christian believes that God always existed and Trinitarians believe that Jesus (as human character) was in the beginning with the Father...long before the point in time where He was physically born.Thus we believe that the Jesus of Christian faith and tradition did initiate(create) the universe as we know it. Personally I believe that Jesus initiated matter as we know it. Beyond that simple belief, I'll let Cosmologists explain how the universe potentially evolved.

Without knowing Candles beliefs, I would guess that his answer to all of your questions is "after".. I don't think he really accepts the theory of a "Historical Jesus". (as I expounded on in my Wiki quote)As you ponder the wonder of the Sun being eclipsed by the moon and how the Sun itself is simply one of trillions of stars potentially existing, perhaps you can understand our (primitive) belief that matter was at one time initiated and did *not* always exist. I hope you and your wife have a relaxing yet exciting trip and that you feel better.

Well Tangle, I also hope that you get an opportunity to enjoy the solar eclipse in between your continued banter with (as you would phrase it) us nutters.