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Author | Topic: Why There Are Gold Bugs & Silver Stackers | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.4 |
That can be said every day in the existence of humanity. It means nothing.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?
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Phat Member Posts: 18633 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
Theo writes: What if not everybody wants to add to the debt?
who else is going to take out debt?
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Taq Member Posts: 10295 Joined: Member Rating: 7.4
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Phat writes: What I am implying is that we cannot nor should not keep borrowing against the equity of our country. That's not how national debt works. There is nothing we are holding in collateral that is forfeited if the US does not pay its debt. There's no equity. The US either prints money or issues bonds. As far as I am aware, every country has debt. It's part of being a country. At the same time, its smart to pay down the debt during good economic times (i.e. right now) so that there is more head room to borrow against in the case of an economic downturn.
We cannot pay the worlds bills. That really depends on the bills. For example, the money we spent to rebuild Europe and Japan (i.e. the Marshall Plan) was the best money this country ever spent given the returns it has given. Also, the financial support of NATO allies has been repaid many times over in terms of national security. The US has the influence it has now because of foreign aid and money spent elsewhere. A lot of it is absolutely worth it.
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Taq Member Posts: 10295 Joined: Member Rating: 7.4
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Phat writes: Not if the public is in debt to the rest of the world.In fact, not even if the public is in debt to the US treasury. Some debt is inevitable and is ok. We are stepping beyond that safety zone. Why is it a problem if foreigners buy US Treasury bonds? The public buys US Treasury bonds, so the US Treasury is in debt to the public, not the other way around.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.4 |
Supposed to be "take our debt". Is this still your response?
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?
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Phat Member Posts: 18633 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
Yes. As Taq mentions, we are "supposed" to pay down the debt in good times so as to weather the bad times. This is not happening. What irks me is that nobody seems to care. Too much debt outstanding may eventually come back to bite us in the arse.
I fear that it will. Am I being irrational?
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Taq Member Posts: 10295 Joined: Member Rating: 7.4 |
Phat writes: Yes. As Taq mentions, we are "supposed" to pay down the debt in good times so as to weather the bad times. This is not happening. What irks me is that nobody seems to care. Too much debt outstanding may eventually come back to bite us in the arse. I fear that it will. Am I being irrational? If our national debt doubles or triples, then fear would be a rational response. However, I don't think fear is a rational response with current debt levels. Increasing the debt by about 800 billion a year is essentially free since that treads water with respect to GDP. The only real problem the current debt causes is an opportunity cost. We can't invest in big projects or big changes in the economy because of current debt. It's something akin to someone comfortably paying off one mortgage, but not having quite the income to comfortably afford a second mortgage on a vacation home.
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 10.0
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Phat in Message 51 writes: Yes. As Taq mentions, we are "supposed" to pay down the debt in good times so as to weather the bad times. This is not happening. What irks me is that nobody seems to care. How do you know it is not happening? Just what exactly are you doing about it? Phat in Message 51 writes: Too much debt outstanding may eventually come back to bite us in the arse. I fear that it will. Am I being irrational? Thoughts and prayers should save the day, shouldn't they? But what I think is more likely, the Republicans in Congress will cause the U.S. to default on it's debt, making barrowing in the future more expensive.Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned! What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.4
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Yes. You always are.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8654 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 7.0
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What if not everybody wants to add to the debt? Then pay off your credit cards and don't use them anymore. Oh, you mean the government debt? You made your choice at the ballot box. You didn't win? You have no choice. You will pay your taxes or ... the IRS is not all that pleasant.Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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Omnivorous Member (Idle past 124 days) Posts: 4001 From: Adirondackia Joined:
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What if not everybody wants to add to the debt? Then pay off your credit cards and don't use them anymore. Oh, you mean the government debt? Also, the government accepts voluntary contributions. During his personal good times (assumed), Phat could literally pay down the debt: more walk, less talk -- my kind of Christian nationalist.."If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads." Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
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Taq Member Posts: 10295 Joined: Member Rating: 7.4
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Just to put some numbers on this.
2023 total tax revenue = 4.4 trillion2023 interest on national debt = 0.689 trillion 2023 interest as percent of tax revenue = 15.7% Would it be really nice to have 690 billion to put towards projects like converting to greener technologies? Yes, absolutely. Would it be of some benefit to lower taxes by that amount? Absolutely. Is the government collapsing under the weight of interest payments? No.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8654 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 7.0
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Also, the government accepts voluntary contributions. Isn't Phat a republican? They don't want to waste their tax $$ on paying down last decades debt. The republican ideal is to give away all our tax money as loopholes for billionaires and their international conglomerates. Phat doesn't realize that he and his union bros pay more in income tax than their employer. And funnier still, he thinks he has a direct say in how his tax money is spent. Fund the business loophole but not the school lunch program.Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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Taq Member Posts: 10295 Joined: Member Rating: 7.4
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AZPaul3 writes: Isn't Phat a republican? They don't want to waste their tax $$ on paying down last decades debt. The republican ideal is to give away all our tax money as loopholes for billionaires and their international conglomerates. Phat is hoping to scoop up the crumbs that fall off the table of the rich. He's hoping there will be more crumbs if they are allowed to keep more of their money, apparently. Trickle Down economics sounds a whole lot more like getting pissed on, at least to me.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.4
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Should be changed to tinkle down economics.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?
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