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Author Topic:   The Salesmen of the Green New Deal
USA 1776
Junior Member (Idle past 141 days)
Posts: 29
From: United States
Joined: 07-02-2024


Message 1 of 181 (919260)
07-02-2024 6:03 PM


The scientific theory behind the entire environmental agenda pertaining to the atmosphere, since the late 1980's, has been the theory of a vulnerable ozone layer, subject to depletion by man-made chemicals and carbon dioxide, as evidenced by the "ozone hole" over the northern region of Antarctica. Yet this theory is discredited, if not dis-proven entirely, by this one simple statement:
"The severe depletion of the Antarctic ozone layer known as the “ozone hole” occurs because of the special meteorological and chemical conditions that exist there and nowhere else on the globe." - NOAA Chemical Sciences laboratory
In addition, what has been referred to as the "ozone hole" is not actually a hole. Instead, it is simply a thinning of the ozone layer in one particular region in Antarctica where there are unique weather conditions that form what is known as the "Polar Vortex". The North Polar region of Antarctica, which lacks the Polar Vortex, has also never developed a thinning of the ozone layer.*
The lowest ozone concentration in the Polar Vortex ever recorded was about 30% of the normal level, and levels this low are rare. UV absorption by O2 molecules in either instance remains unaffected. Overall ozone levels have actually been rising by about .28% per year, and the National Cancer Institute showed that between 1974 and 1985, the amount of UV radiation penetrating the ozone layer declined by about .7% per year. A separate European study indicated a decrease of up to .9% in UV radiation reaching the earth between 1968 and 1982.
In seeing the thinning of the ozone layer in a specific region of Antarctica and nowhere else, and in light of the true scientific data, it becomes apparent that the salesmen of the Green New Deal had to make three interpretive leaps in order to sell their plan to the public.
The first leap was to see the thinning of the ozone layer and interpret it as a problem. With the creation of a problem comes the second leap: The need to find/create a scapegoat or "boogeyman" on which to blame the problem. Once the culprit or scapegoat has been identified, the final leap can be made, which is to create a 'solution' or 'final answer'. The blame for the 'problem' was determined to be certain man-made chemicals that the environmentalists say might drift into the ozone layer, and be broken down by the sunlight into chlorine.
Certain forms of chlorine can change 2 molecules of O3 into 3 molecules of O2, which results in a decrease in the ozone concentration and an increase in oxygen. While certain forms of chlorine may in theory change 2 molecules of O3 into 3 molecules of O2, the vast percentage of chemical molecules stemming from mankind and industry never drift that high into the atmosphere, and of the percentage that might, even less are actually broken down into chlorine. Of the molecules that may actually be broken into chlorine, their affect on the ozone layer is highly suspect, because the entire amount of chlorine that could theoretically be released from man-made compounds, during the peak production year of 1974, is utterly insignificant compared to the chlorine released by oceans alone, every year.
If all such compounds from production year 1974 were to drift into the upper atmosphere and release all of its chlorine, man would have added about 750,000 tons of chlorine to the atmosphere. The oceans alone put 600,000,000 tons of chlorine into the atmosphere every year, and volcanoes have been known to contribute over 200,000,000 tons in one single eruption, such as with Mount Tambora, 1813. Mount Erebus in Antarctica alone adds more than 360,000 tons of chlorine into the atmosphere every year since 1972. Other natural sources add more than 13,400,000 tons of atmospheric chlorine every year.**
It can be said that such environmentalists are willfully ignorant, because this data has been on record for many years. They have chosen instead to both ignore and suppress it, preferring to keep their boogeyman alive by hiding the data from the public through purges of the public library system, and hiding it from the students by erasing it from their textbooks. In its place, they have drawn up imagined scenarios of what the levels of ozone depletion might be if the United States were to continue using the objects of their scorn.
Yet in their willful ignorance and rejection of the truth, they have failed to see that the worst case scenarios of ozone depletion are insignificant compared to the variations in depletion that occur daily. The trees and bushes lose their leaves and gain them back; The trees, plants and grass sway in the wind, and the sea levels rise and fall; Wood, even the wood in a piano, can change dimension from one month or year to the next. All of nature is in a constant state of change, because nature is alive. Yet the public has been told for more than 30 years that when there is even a slight change in ozone concentrations, there is a problem, and the problem is the fault of man. In reality, ozone concentrations can fluctuate weekly by as much as 40%, and yearly they can fluctuate by 20 to 40%. The 'global disaster' predicted by the environmentalists was a decrease in the average ozone level by less than 10% over the next 100 years.
The strawman of certain man made chemicals as the cause for the thinning of an ozone region was made despite the clear record that this region was first discovered in 1956, before such chemicals ever came into widespread use. The error of the claim is further shown in the observations of Dr. Gordon Dobson, the first scientist to discover the 'hole', who found that it is not a constant feature of the ozone layer, but instead a temporary, recurring phenomenon which appears near the end of Winter each year, lasts three to five weeks, and disappears suddenly at the beginning of Spring.***
The study of the Polar Vortex and ozone layer can be an interesting and engaging one, as with all areas of science. It was intended to be explored and reported upon by those of good faith, not used as a lethal weapon of fear and deceit against the United States by those who seek to tear it down. The Green New Deal is a problem and chief enemy of the United States, and it is an enemy of your soul, because it is a byproduct of vain philosophy that denies that the earth was created by an intelligent, master designer. Its salesmen are modern day examples of those who "suppress the truth in unrighteousness", in order to maintain and serve their evil interests, and they serve and worship money, power and the created, rather than the Creator. They prefer not to retain God in their knowledge, and as a result, many other problems follow. (Romans 1)
In contrast is the belief in the Creator; With it comes the natural trust that though a person may not know everything about the workings of the universe, he can rest assured in its durability and design, and know that normal industry does not pose an existential threat either to himself or the planet on which he lives.
*Hugh W. Ellsaesser, 1990. "Planet Earth: Are Scientists Undertakers or Caretakers?" Keynote Address to the National Council of State Garden Clubs meeting, Hot Springs, Arkansas, Oct. 7.
**W.G Lawrence, K.C Clemitshaw, and V.A Apkarian, 1990. "On the Relevance of OCIO Photodissociation to the Destruction of Stratospheric Ozone", Journal of Geophysical Research, Vol. 95, No. D11 (Oct. 20), p.18,591-595.
***Gordon M.B Dobson, 1968. "Forty Years Research on Atmospheric Ozone at Oxford University: A Hiistory", Applied Optics, Vol. 7, No. 3, pp. 387-405

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Adminnemooseus, posted 07-02-2024 7:34 PM USA 1776 has replied
 Message 8 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-05-2024 8:56 PM USA 1776 has not replied
 Message 9 by AZPaul3, posted 07-05-2024 10:14 PM USA 1776 has not replied
 Message 17 by PaulK, posted 07-06-2024 7:08 AM USA 1776 has not replied
 Message 18 by Theodoric, posted 07-06-2024 8:50 AM USA 1776 has not replied
 Message 19 by Percy, posted 07-06-2024 8:54 AM USA 1776 has not replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Inactive Administrator


Message 2 of 181 (919261)
07-02-2024 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by USA 1776
07-02-2024 6:03 PM


Pre-promotion material hidden. Use "Peek" to see.

Or something like that©.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by USA 1776, posted 07-02-2024 6:03 PM USA 1776 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by USA 1776, posted 07-03-2024 11:15 PM Adminnemooseus has replied

  
USA 1776
Junior Member (Idle past 141 days)
Posts: 29
From: United States
Joined: 07-02-2024


Message 3 of 181 (919262)
07-03-2024 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Adminnemooseus
07-02-2024 7:34 PM


Pre-promotion material hidden. Use "Peek" to see.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Adminnemooseus, posted 07-02-2024 7:34 PM Adminnemooseus has replied

Replies to this message:
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Admin
Director
Posts: 13107
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002


Message 4 of 181 (919263)
07-04-2024 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by USA 1776
07-03-2024 11:15 PM


Pre-promotion material hidden. Use "Peek" to see.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

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Adminnemooseus
Inactive Administrator


Message 5 of 181 (919264)
07-05-2024 5:52 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by USA 1776
07-03-2024 11:15 PM


Pre-promotion material hidden. Use "Peek" to see.

Or something like that©.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by USA 1776, posted 07-03-2024 11:15 PM USA 1776 has not replied

  
USA 1776
Junior Member (Idle past 141 days)
Posts: 29
From: United States
Joined: 07-02-2024


Message 6 of 181 (919265)
07-05-2024 5:49 PM


Top message is now edited and in its final form.
Thank you for letting me know about the other thread already discussing this topic.

  
Adminnemooseus
Inactive Administrator


Message 7 of 181 (919267)
07-05-2024 6:17 PM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the The Salesmen of the Green New Deal thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4597
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 10.0


(4)
Message 8 of 181 (919270)
07-05-2024 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by USA 1776
07-02-2024 6:03 PM


USA 1776 writes in Message 1:
In seeing the thinning of the ozone layer in a specific region of Antarctica and nowhere else, and in light of the true scientific data, it becomes apparent that the salesmen of the Green New Deal had to make three interpretive leaps in order to sell their plan to the public.
Who exactly is this salesmen of the Green New Deal and exactly when did they start trying to sell the Green New Deal? Why not name them?
The blame for the 'problem' was determined to be certain man-made chemicals that the environmentalists say might drift into the ozone layer, and be broken down by the sunlight into chlorine.
Which certain chemicals are you talking about? Why not name it?
I would think that what would be an important part of the discussion would be what chemists have to say.
First you say:
It can be said that such environmentalists are willfully ignorant, because this data has been on record for many years.
and then you say:
They have chosen instead to both ignore and suppress it, preferring to keep their boogeyman alive by hiding the data from the public through purges of the public library system, and hiding it from the students by erasing it from their textbooks.
So the data has been available for many years and it's hidden from the public. Which is it? And just exactly who are these willful environmentalists?
The study of the Polar Vortex and ozone layer can be an interesting and engaging one, as with all areas of science.
I guess no one found it very interesting after 1990. The garden club talk sounds riveting.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
If you are going to argue that evolution is false because it resembles your own beliefs then perhaps you should rethink your argument. - - Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by USA 1776, posted 07-02-2024 6:03 PM USA 1776 has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8654
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 7.0


Message 9 of 181 (919273)
07-05-2024 10:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by USA 1776
07-02-2024 6:03 PM


And you think all this minutia proves god? I'm not seeing it.

“There’s simply no polite way to tell people they’ve dedicated their lives to an illusion,”
-Daniel Dennett
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by USA 1776, posted 07-02-2024 6:03 PM USA 1776 has not replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 11 by nwr, posted 07-05-2024 10:39 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4597
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 10 of 181 (919274)
07-05-2024 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by AZPaul3
07-05-2024 10:14 PM


It's the atheist environmentalists!

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
If you are going to argue that evolution is false because it resembles your own beliefs then perhaps you should rethink your argument. - - Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by AZPaul3, posted 07-05-2024 10:14 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6484
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 9.1


Message 11 of 181 (919275)
07-05-2024 10:39 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by AZPaul3
07-05-2024 10:14 PM


AZPaul3 writes in Message 9:
And you think all this minutia proves god?
For sure, it proves nothing.
Perhaps he equates God with nothing!

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by AZPaul3, posted 07-05-2024 10:14 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-05-2024 11:21 PM nwr has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4597
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 10.0


(1)
Message 12 of 181 (919277)
07-05-2024 11:21 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by nwr
07-05-2024 10:39 PM


For sure, it proves nothing.
But why doesn't he know that this problem was solved decades ago when the whole planet cooperated and found less harmful alternatives to Chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) and that there is no connection between the ozone depletion by CFCs and the Green New Deal political movement.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
If you are going to argue that evolution is false because it resembles your own beliefs then perhaps you should rethink your argument. - - Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by nwr, posted 07-05-2024 10:39 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by nwr, posted 07-05-2024 11:46 PM Tanypteryx has not replied
 Message 14 by Theodoric, posted 07-06-2024 12:09 AM Tanypteryx has replied
 Message 26 by USA 1776, posted 07-06-2024 10:33 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6484
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 9.1


Message 13 of 181 (919278)
07-05-2024 11:46 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Tanypteryx
07-05-2024 11:21 PM


Tanypteryx writes in Message 12:
But why doesn't he know that this problem was solved decades ago
Yes, that's the mystery here.
Perhaps he was determined to refute something -- anything.
And he has successfully refuted himself.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-05-2024 11:21 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9489
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 6.4


Message 14 of 181 (919279)
07-06-2024 12:09 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Tanypteryx
07-05-2024 11:21 PM


Something, something, something Jesus?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-05-2024 11:21 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-06-2024 1:04 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4597
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 15 of 181 (919280)
07-06-2024 1:04 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Theodoric
07-06-2024 12:09 AM


Yep toxic!

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
If you are going to argue that evolution is false because it resembles your own beliefs then perhaps you should rethink your argument. - - Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Theodoric, posted 07-06-2024 12:09 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
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