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Author Topic:   The disconnect between the bible, and its horrific actions versus the message
dwise1
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Posts: 6114
Joined: 05-02-2006
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Message 42 of 57 (919459)
07-11-2024 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by GDR
07-11-2024 11:56 AM


Percy writes:
Most conservative Christians take the flood story as literal truth and ...
And you know that how. I've been involved in church life for numerous years and I haven't met all that many Christians who would read that literally.
And I know that there are no such things as blizzards or tornados or hurricanes because in my 66 years of living in Southern California I have never experienced either of those things. Therefore from my personal experience, there's no such thing.
In both your and my case, our sampling is highly biased by not being where such things happen. You just happened to have been in non-YEC churches, but there are many fundie churches which are YEC in which they require that you believe that Noah's Flood literally happened in order to be a "true Christian" (therefore, those "Christians" of whom you speak weren't really Christians). Similarly, Percy's and our perception is also strongly biased by the parade of YECs who insist on the literal truth of Noah's Flood (eg, do you remember Faith and the complete and utter nonsense claims she made?)
Also, I had an email correspondence with a Canadian YEC, so I know from personal experience that they do exist.
BTW, I did serve five winters in the cold part of North Dakota and experienced a couple blizzards there. It was nothing like in the movies where the wind is howling. No howling wind in the real thing -- actually no wind for that matter -- , just silence as tons of snow fell softly from the sky reducing visibility on the ground to maybe 100 feet.
Actually it's more of an American thing.
Yes, for the most part YEC has been exported from the USA, but like any self-respecting invasive species it has taken root and flourishes in foreign lands like Australia and Canada. Even in the formation of YEC Canadians contributed; eg, George McCready Price from whom Dr. Henry Morris ("Father of Flood Geology") stole whole his ideas without attribution. And many YouTube videos addressing creationist claims address videos by Canadian creationists (eg, Viced Rhino's critiques of Calvin Smith of Answers in Genesis Canada). Oh, and Ken Ham of "Ark Experience" infamy is from Australia.
Again, if you haven't traveled in those circles then you wouldn't be aware of them. The reason is not because of them, but rather because of your own inattentiveness.
Sure it's easier for the vast majority of posters on this forum so mock the strawman you have set up.
Not a strawman, since the creationists of whom we speak do actually exist.
Also, I turn a jaundiced eye to such sweeping uninformed denials. For example, when trying to discuss with creationists whenever I would mention the creationist "why are there still monkeys?" "question", the creationist would attack me for strawmanning and would deny that any creationist would actually say something so completely stupid as that. And yet, in my four decades with creationism I have personally witnessed creationists using that exact claim several times in the wild and totally of their own volition (indeed, they were the ones to bring it up). Furthermore, when Dr. Jonathan Sarfati of Answers in Genesis published their to-my-knowledge-first article of "Claims We Wish Creationists Would Not Use" (2002), that list included "Why are there still monkeys?", which indicates that that question was so prevalent that they felt they had to address it -- BTW, Sarfati had to respond to a professional creationist, Kent Hovind, who lambasted their article because he himself used many of those really bad claims (I quote from Sarfati's response here -- Sarfati even issues the same warnings as I have for decades, that false creationist claims kill faith and lead to atheism).
I don't think I've changed any minds but I've tried to a show that to be a conservative Christian, (which is a label that you have attached), you don't have to conform to your strawman.
Again, not a strawman.
But my impression of you has been that you are at least reasonable in sharp contrast to the likes of candle2 (only the latest in a long parade of mindless creationist drones). One at least has a chance to engage you in a discussion, something that YECs et alia work tirelessly to prevent.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by GDR, posted 07-11-2024 11:56 AM GDR has not replied

  
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