Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 45 (9208 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: anil dahar
Post Volume: Total: 919,516 Year: 6,773/9,624 Month: 113/238 Week: 30/83 Day: 6/3 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Why is Biden still the President
Percy
Member
Posts: 22954
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 7.1


(1)
Message 46 of 89 (920431)
10-08-2024 12:45 PM


About Cognitive Impairment
I think many of us are of an age to have experienced what cognitive impairment actually looks like in our parents' generation. I used to have lunch occasionally with the residents of the elderly housing where my mother lived. Some were as sharp as tacks, others couldn't remember their families or what they did for work, others couldn't speak sense about anything, and others seemed to be living in some other world than the one around them.
So I think I know what cognitive impairment looks like, and to me Biden is not cognitively impaired. However, he has definitely lost a step mentally. He pulls out the wrong name or fact more often than he used to. Same for losing his train of thought. His energy level is down. Four years ago he looked old but vigorous. Now he just looks old.
But if you watch his press conferences, an interactive activity as opposed to one where he only has to read from a teleprompter, he seems fine. He's more halting, his answers are brief, but he seems fine. Just old. I posted a video of a recent press conference a few messages ago.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by GDR, posted 10-08-2024 3:11 PM Percy has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6223
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 47 of 89 (920432)
10-08-2024 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by PaulK
10-08-2024 12:29 AM


PaulK writes:
Once again you ignore the obvious fact that Biden’s campaign was going very poorly and in ways that seemed hard to fix - such as the attacks from the media. That in itself is sufficient explanation.
Maybe his campaign was going poorly because his gognitive impairment was becoming obvious.
PaulK writes:
I think that this obvious evasion is exactly what it looks like - another attempt to cover up the fact that you made a false claim.
I'm still not clear what you are referring to. I only made the point that if Biden is cognitive impaired and left office then Harris becomes president. Again, assuming Biden is cognitively impaired wouldn't it be preferable to have Harris as president who is not cognately impaired.
PaulK writes:
If find it very hard that you are unsure what I am getting it. You claimed that I “made assumptions” and implied that those assumptions were somehow contradicted by the fact that if Biden went Harris would be President. I quoted that in my post so you have no excuse for not knowing. Here it is again:
I have no problem admitting if I'm wrong and if I am then I'm sorry. I hope that my statement above explains the problem.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by PaulK, posted 10-08-2024 12:29 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by PaulK, posted 10-08-2024 2:54 PM GDR has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6223
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 48 of 89 (920433)
10-08-2024 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Taq
10-08-2024 10:59 AM


Taq writes:
At the same time, it is completely false to claim that Democrats took Biden off the ticket because he is cognitively impaired. That's not the reason.
The point again is that I would argue that he was doing badly in the polls because many people saw him as being cognitively impaired. Neither one of us know and we are both expressing our opinion.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Taq, posted 10-08-2024 10:59 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Taq, posted 10-08-2024 3:24 PM GDR has not replied
 Message 71 by Percy, posted 10-09-2024 12:07 PM GDR has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6223
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 49 of 89 (920434)
10-08-2024 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Percy
10-08-2024 11:46 AM


Percy writes:
​That's not how you began this thread. Here is sentence 1 of Message 1, your post that began this thread where you said the "Democratic party" (not some members of the Democratic party, as you later tried to claim you said, but the actual Democratic party) had concluded that Biden was cognitively impaired and should step down, yet they let him stay in office despite this:
Good point. The Democratic membership had no say in it but it was a decision taken by those who hold power in the Democratic party.
Percy writes:
I haven't memorized the thread, so when did it morph from an assertion of cognitive impairment to one of a decline in mental acuity, and how are you defining mental acuity anyway. If you mean it in terms of the ability to think clearly and accurately then I think Biden is fine. If you mean it in terms of mental alacrity and rapid and accurate recall of facts then I think Biden's mental acuity has declined while president. Does Biden seem able to successfully carry out the duties of his office for another three or four months, especially now that he's unburdened with having to campaign? I think that's the question you should have begun with.
I agree. I conflated the two terms and I shouldn't have. My own unevidenced belief is that Biden isn't really calling the shots now anyway. I'm guessing that it is people like Obama and Pelosi.
Percy writes:
Is "mental fitness" a synonym for "cognitive impairment" now?
As I said, I was wrong to do that.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Percy, posted 10-08-2024 11:46 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Percy, posted 10-09-2024 4:33 PM GDR has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17919
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 6.7


(1)
Message 50 of 89 (920435)
10-08-2024 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by GDR
10-08-2024 2:24 PM


quote:
Maybe his campaign was going poorly because his gognitive impairment was becoming obvious.
Speculation - especially speculation on matters you considered irrelevant to your original point - hardly establishes your opinion as fact, nor justifies presenting it as fact.
quote:
I'm still not clear what you are referring to. I only made the point that if Biden is cognitive impaired and left office then Harris becomes president. Again, assuming Biden is cognitively impaired wouldn't it be preferable to have Harris as president who is not cognately impaired.
No that is not true. You claimed that I “made assumptions” and implied that the fact that Harris would normally succeed Biden some contradicted that. So what are these assumptions I supposedly made ? And where did you find them in my posts ?
quote:
I have no problem admitting if I'm wrong and if I am then I'm sorry. I hope that my statement above explains the problem.
The problem is obviously that rather than admit that something you said was untrue you’ll try to pretend that you didn’t say it - and you expect me to believe that.
Here’s a simple question did you write
I asked a question and then you make assumptions
Or not? If you admit that you did - despite the denial above then will you finally explain what these assumptions were and where you found them in my posts? Or will you go on insisting that you can’t understand that?
I’ll also note that it’s hardly the only example of you having a problem admitting that you are wrong in this thread. Nor is it unusual behaviour for you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by GDR, posted 10-08-2024 2:24 PM GDR has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6223
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 51 of 89 (920436)
10-08-2024 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Percy
10-08-2024 12:28 PM


Percy writes:
I'm sorry you've had such a bad experience here, but I'd be surprised if you didn't have the same experience everywhere after your performance in the Choosing a faith thread.
I have no idea what you are specifically referring to in that thread. Religious belief is based on the conclusions we come to based on what we experience and what we understand about our existence and what it means to us. My point with that thread is that what is important is not the name that we apply to a deity, or the faith that we adhere to but the nature of that deity, (even if one is secular following personal beliefs), and how we are to apply it to our lives. The thread, as usual got drawn off track.
Percy writes:

In politics questions are raised about everything all the time, often with political motivations, so generalize your question: If there are questions raised about something or someone in government, don't you think it should be verified one way or the other.

For example, questions have been raised about whether Trump is a racist, misogynist autocrat with delusions of dictatorship and a list of grievances who would end democracy as we know it. Don't you think it should be verified one way or the other?

And isn't that a far more important question than whether Biden should serve out the last three or four months of his term?
However the American public is able to measure for themselves how they feel about Trump's failings but Biden was elected as a president when ho one was questioning his mental state. Now he is still president and people are questioning his mental state and he is refusing to be tested.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Percy, posted 10-08-2024 12:28 PM Percy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by PaulK, posted 10-08-2024 3:32 PM GDR has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6223
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 52 of 89 (920437)
10-08-2024 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Percy
10-08-2024 12:45 PM


Re: About Cognitive Impairment
Percy writes:
I think many of us are of an age to have experienced what cognitive impairment actually looks like in our parents' generation. I used to have lunch occasionally with the residents of the elderly housing where my mother lived. Some were as sharp as tacks, others couldn't remember their families or what they did for work, others couldn't speak sense about anything, and others seemed to be living in some other world than the one around them.

So I think I know what cognitive impairment looks like, and to me Biden is not cognitively impaired. However, he has definitely lost a step mentally. He pulls out the wrong name or fact more often than he used to. Same for losing his train of thought. His energy level is down. Four years ago he looked old but vigorous. Now he just looks old.

But if you watch his press conferences, an interactive activity as opposed to one where he only has to read from a teleprompter, he seems fine. He's more halting, his answers are brief, but he seems fine. Just old. I posted a video of a recent press conference a few messages ago.
I'm just a year younger that Biden and I have volunteered with a music program for seniors for 45 years. I too have witnessed cognitive decline in thousands of people over the years first in Montreal, Toronto and now out here on Vancouver Island. (Being a year younger than Biden I am still considered to be part of the youth movement in this area. )
Bottom line is though why is Biden not agreeing to an assessment in order to put concerns to rest.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Percy, posted 10-08-2024 12:45 PM Percy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by dwise1, posted 10-08-2024 4:34 PM GDR has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10304
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 7.3


(2)
Message 53 of 89 (920438)
10-08-2024 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by GDR
10-08-2024 2:28 PM


GDR writes:
The point again is that I would argue that he was doing badly in the polls because many people saw him as being cognitively impaired.
Let's grant you that point.
Does this mean he is actually impaired? No.
Does this mean other Democrats deemed him to be impaired? No.
Therefore, it is wrong to claim that Democrats should have used the 25th Amendment to remove Biden from office because they had already deemed him to be unfit when they forced him off the ticket.
Politics is sales. One of the first things taught to me in my short sales career was "Perception is Reality". It doesn't matter how good your product is, if the product is perceived as being crap then the reality in sales is that it is crap, and you need to fix it. Biden was poorly perceived by the public, and he was getting his ass kicked, so they chose a new candidate. One wonders if the Democrats had changed the ticket sooner if the Republicans would have done the same. Trump was about the only viable person Biden could beat, and vice versa. If Nikki Haley were running on the Republican ticket I wouldn't be surprised if she wins.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by GDR, posted 10-08-2024 2:28 PM GDR has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17919
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 6.7


(1)
Message 54 of 89 (920439)
10-08-2024 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by GDR
10-08-2024 3:03 PM


quote:
Percy writes:
I'm sorry you've had such a bad experience here, but I'd be surprised if you didn't have the same experience everywhere after your performance in the Choosing a faith thread.
I have no idea what you are specifically referring to in that thread
Review the thread - there’s no shortage of examples there. And obviously you’ll have no problem admitting to them, will you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by GDR, posted 10-08-2024 3:03 PM GDR has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 6077
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 7.3


(4)
Message 55 of 89 (920441)
10-08-2024 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by GDR
10-08-2024 3:11 PM


Re: About Cognitive Impairment
Bottom line is though why is Biden not agreeing to an assessment in order to put concerns to rest.
The President gets a full annual physical exam which includes a cognitive assessment. So the response to your request is "already been done and he passed." And it's an actual exam unlike Trump's which are all just being pencil-whipped (pencil-whipping is when you just sign off officially that maintenance work or a visual inspection had been performed when it in fact hadn't been).
Normally, the public is told in general how well the President did. Of course, under Trump that information was kept highly secret (eg, we can't even get a straight story on how his ear went straight from being "half blown off" to fully healed). Trump just dictates the medical report and has the doctor sign it. Pencil-whipping at the highest level of government.
Again, why are you so eaten up about Biden while we watch Trump fall apart before our eyes. It's eventually going to get so bad that none of the conservative media (which is most of the media) will no longer be able to sane-wash it away.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by GDR, posted 10-08-2024 3:11 PM GDR has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Phat, posted 10-08-2024 7:25 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18655
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 56 of 89 (920442)
10-08-2024 7:25 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by dwise1
10-08-2024 4:34 PM


Re: About Cognitive Impairment
The conservative media is *Not* most of the media! Other than that sentence, nothing else caught my eye. Trump is the best that the conservatives could come up with which is sad. Why can't someone smart take the lead?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by dwise1, posted 10-08-2024 4:34 PM dwise1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Theodoric, posted 10-08-2024 8:31 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 58 by xongsmith, posted 10-08-2024 10:24 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 70 by xongsmith, posted 10-09-2024 11:58 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9489
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 6.3


Message 57 of 89 (920443)
10-08-2024 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Phat
10-08-2024 7:25 PM


Re: About Cognitive Impairment
So tell us what media is not conservative and why? Is this another word you don't understand?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Phat, posted 10-08-2024 7:25 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2620
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009


Message 58 of 89 (920444)
10-08-2024 10:24 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Phat
10-08-2024 7:25 PM


Re: About Cognitive Impairment
Phat claims
The conservative media is *Not* most of the media!
i have an old chart, if I could post a picture. Maybe google it and post the link?
ah, they have a new chart:

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Phat, posted 10-08-2024 7:25 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Theodoric, posted 10-08-2024 10:37 PM xongsmith has replied
 Message 69 by Taq, posted 10-09-2024 11:57 AM xongsmith has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9489
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 6.3


Message 59 of 89 (920445)
10-08-2024 10:37 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by xongsmith
10-08-2024 10:24 PM


Re: About Cognitive Impairment
Not a great source. Basically created by one person who is a patent attorney.
quote:
A similar effort is “The Media Bias Chart,” or simply, “The Chart.” Created by Colorado patent attorney Vanessa Otero, the chart has gone through several methodological iterations, but currently is based on her evaluation of outlets’ stories on dimensions of veracity, fairness, and expression.
We can probably measure media bias. But do we want to? - Columbia Journalism Review

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by xongsmith, posted 10-08-2024 10:24 PM xongsmith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by xongsmith, posted 10-09-2024 12:13 AM Theodoric has replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2620
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009


Message 60 of 89 (920446)
10-09-2024 12:13 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Theodoric
10-08-2024 10:37 PM


Re: About Cognitive Impairment
but it still is a usable chart. No?
with the caveat.

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Theodoric, posted 10-08-2024 10:37 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Theodoric, posted 10-09-2024 7:31 AM xongsmith has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024