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Author Topic:   Why is it Evolution versus Creation?
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1486 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 6 of 45 (368182)
12-07-2006 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by geatz
12-07-2006 4:16 AM


I hate that evolutionists are pushing evolution as a fact simply because they don't want to believe in something higher than themselves.
We're not. We're arguing that evolution is a fact because evolution is a fact. Why wouldn't we argue for the facts, for the truth?
The fact that so many evolutionists are still arguing "if" leads me to believe you aren't so confident in your findings.
That doesn't make any sense at all, and it makes me think that you're committed to denying evolution no matter what. Surely, if evolutionists retreated from the discussion, and refused to contradict creationists when they said "evolution is false", you'd take that as confirmation that the creationists were right?
It doesn't look like it's possible to win with you. If evolutionists put forth their arguments for evolution, it proves creationism. If evolutionists retreat from the debate, it proves creationism. How is that possibly fair?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by geatz, posted 12-07-2006 4:16 AM geatz has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1486 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 13 of 45 (368332)
12-07-2006 11:48 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by geatz
12-07-2006 11:14 PM


The Gospel of John was written by the disiciple John
No, it wasn't. John wasn't writted until 100-120 AD. How could it have been written by an eyewitness?
The historian Josephus author of, The Jewish War, The Jewish Antiquities, Life, and Against Apion.
Josephus largely copied the Bible. He had no independant knowledge of the bible events, and again, wasn't even writing until decades after Jesus was said to have lived.
Tacticus author of, annals of Rome, he wrote
Tacitus recounted nothing but what the Christians at the time had told him. He represents no independant confirmation of the bible stories.
You can look up the authors I posted earlier for more documentary evidence for the existence of Jesus and him as a miricle worker.
None of your authors provide any kind of evidence; they're simply recounting what the Christians told them.
Maybe you simply don't understand how stories are corroborated. If I come up and tell you a story about seeing a UFO, and then you tell your friends "Crash says he saw a UFO", your version of the story doesn't corroborate mine. That's the same deal with all your authors. They're simply repeating what they were told; the original source of their information is still the stories that eventually formed the Bible.
Nothing, if all that mattered in a court case was DNA evidence we'd have many criminals in the street and innocent people in jail.
...wha?
Luke author of about 1/4 of the new testament is very accurate as an historian.
That may be, but so what? Just because he was right about some things doesn't mean we can just take his word on everything.
What about the historical evidence for Jesus I just pointed out.
What evidence? Authors who all heard the same story? Bibles written a century after the fact by persons unknown?
Even if I assumed evolution were possible, to think that all the different creatures in this world came from evolution would be a mathematical improbobability (in my opinion) even if the world were a trillion years old.(I have my undergrade in Mathematics, I'm not a mathematical genius, but I know what is an accepted mathemtical improbability.)
Really? Then I'm sure you'll have no trouble at all performing that calculation. Be sure to show your work.
We're waiting...
Why do evolutionists attack those that look for holes in their theory?
Well, we don't. We simply explain how they're wrong about the holes.
It's people like the creationalists that help us to find the real truth because they question that which is believed to be true.
I'm sure that makes you feel better but it's simply untrue. Creationists have never, ever advanced scientific thinking. Rather, science has always been advanced by scientists employing the tools of the scientific method to advance knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by geatz, posted 12-07-2006 11:14 PM geatz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by geatz, posted 12-08-2006 12:00 AM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1486 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 17 of 45 (368338)
12-08-2006 12:08 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by geatz
12-08-2006 12:00 AM


Wow are you gonna backup anything you say, where are you getting this information, off a google search lol.
No, from years of Bible study. I was a Christian too, once, and I studied the Bible for a while.
The Gospel of John was written by John and not in 100-120 AD
What makes you say that?
I believe what you are refering to is probobly the only found COPY of the Gospel of John which is not the original document.
No, that document was a copy made in 150 AD. John was obviously written earlier, but written at the time of Jesus? Written first, as you said? There's no evidence of that. Considerably evidence against it - like the fact that John borrows heavily from the other three Gospels, so clearly it can't predate them.
I could go into depth about every single one of your posts as to how absolutely false they are but I'm hoping that the rest of the community can see where you are getting your information from.
How about you substantiate your own assertions? You presented absolutely no proof of any of your statements, after all. What, we're just supposed to take your word for it?
Oh, and I'm still waiting for you to show your math.
Edited by crashfrog, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by geatz, posted 12-08-2006 12:00 AM geatz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by geatz, posted 12-08-2006 12:20 AM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1486 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 19 of 45 (368340)
12-08-2006 12:15 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by geatz
12-08-2006 12:10 AM


Because evolution has been mathematically proven true. At least, that's my conclusion based on work in theoretical protein modeling and the operating forces of natural selection and random mutation. (And I can show my work.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by geatz, posted 12-08-2006 12:10 AM geatz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by geatz, posted 12-08-2006 12:22 AM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1486 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 24 of 45 (368345)
12-08-2006 12:26 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by geatz
12-08-2006 12:20 AM


proof....i quoted text?
You quoted nothing in support of your view of John's authorship. Can you present evidence, or can't you?
Yes there are some that believe that John may have borrowed from the other three texts, but the concensus does not believe this to be so.
From what I've read, you've got it 100% wrong. In my undergraduate Bible study - at a Lutheran college, nothing to do with atheism - the consensus view of John as presented was that the author was unknown (definately not John the Apostle) and the date was sometime around 100-120 AD, making it the latest of the gospels. You've certainly presented absolutely zero evidence that John is the earliest gospel, as is your assertion. Not even the extremely conservative Christian churches date John before the other Gospels.
You're way out on the fringe with your position. What evidence do you have for it? Why do I have to keep asking?
And when are you going to show your math?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by geatz, posted 12-08-2006 12:20 AM geatz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by geatz, posted 12-08-2006 12:45 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1486 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 28 of 45 (368349)
12-08-2006 12:30 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by geatz
12-08-2006 12:22 AM


what are you starting with?
Proteins, and the laws of physics, obviously. Why, what are you starting with? It'd be nice if you could show your math.
If you want to know more about what I'm talking about, start with Information Theory and Molecular Biology by H. P. Yockey. I'm sure you can find it at your university library.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by geatz, posted 12-08-2006 12:22 AM geatz has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1486 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 29 of 45 (368350)
12-08-2006 12:32 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by geatz
12-08-2006 12:26 AM


I'll try and put something together next week (I'll be away all weekend.) What's your background in molecular genetics?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by geatz, posted 12-08-2006 12:26 AM geatz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by geatz, posted 12-08-2006 12:46 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
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