home school evolution questions

T-L,I taught sciences one year at a Christian High School and my principal requested my students to debate myself, playing a hard-Evo. Albeit at the time I really was anti-megaEvo and was sucked into OEC (due to my extreme passion for the old Scofield Bible and C.H. Spurgeon). This was back in the 80's when as yet few convincing YEC hypotheses were tolerated.At the time, I too was not convinced of YEC, because Henry Morris oversimplified (with naive Newtonian thermodynamic science) 24-hour days, specifically one (1), two (2), and three (3). He seriously compromised the scriptural vastness of Genesis 1.1-3. Henry Morris later admits he is not too understanding of "respectable relativistic theories", that are required for a YEC to be viable both scientifically and scripturally.I was blown away by a few of my students. 'Twas these students that effectually discredited the ToE and OECism with YECism, and not OECism, nor theistic-evolution. That's when I jumped the OEC boat. I believe you will discover several of your conscientious students are extremely powerful in this debate, and will perhaps molify your shaky theistic-Evo metaphysics into more stable, credible, and parsimonious creation science-hypotheses, e.g., of the OEC or YEC type:Your theistic evolution is too easy to take out from both sides, OEC/YEC and Evo alike. Debate your students and see for yourself what a few might assert: "fence-straddling between God and nature", "pantheistic", "god-of-the-gaps", "hopeful monster theories", "planned accidents", "ex-nihilo denial", "scientific yet extraordinary abiogenesis" ...Albeit you will form more concrete unique scientific and/or Christian perspectives, more valid cosmic hypotheses, like everyone else on this forum. May your faith grow and abound in Christ's Word and His True Science-Word.

I agree; I was shocked by the frequent know-it-all Evo-sarcasms for this gentle new-comer. I hope TL finds grace in his conscience to continue with us after such an outbreak. I wouldn't recommend any timid students of his to debate here (without due warning at least).

No, please forgive the crudeness of my terms ("oversimplification", etc.). I'm used to being rebuked, reproved, rebutted, and rarely exhorted here.I've been disappointed with Morris, nonetheless. He's always been unconvincingly dogmatic, in my less-than-meager opinion.As for his reliance on Newtonian science, I got the distinct impression he was and probably continues to be totally ignorant of relativistic science. In fact, he prompted me to believe OEC (gap-theories, etc.) vs. YEC, due to his limited scope of understanding. (The thing that really discredited the ToE for me was the structural changes of old-world-monkeys --> human beings)Yet for all Morris's failures, he came in at a time of Evo and OEC giants, a dark age for creationism per se. Kind of like a Martin Luther did during the dark ages of the church.Although a thoroughly convinced YEC at present, I highly respect your quickly ripening logic as few theistic and/or (supposed) agnostic evo's aforetime have laid much convincing with me.Hope to discuss and probe your science-logic more later.

If you're not in too much of a rush, care to elaborate on the following:
"...it's neat how many spiritual applications there are to the ideas contained in Darwinism--but a lot of the adults are just taking my word for it that the evidence is strong."Verily, I have heard one good gospel spiritual application of Darwinism by a theistic Evo that I was conscientiously forced to applaud as a valid Christian one (Christian in the sense of the "little Christ" definition and not the broad humanistic/Muslim/agnositic/universalist/etc. version, etc.). But, I'd love to here one or two of yours to peradventure ad to my spiritual conscience.E.g., How does your ToE/hypothesis reflect your Christ-and-him-crucified, death burial and resurrection, redemption by sovereign grace of God, hell-hot, heaven-sweet, etc.Note: This is a question for any theistic-Evo of the evangelical breed. Atheists, agnostics, Muslims, Buddists, and other non-Christian theistic-Evos, please refrain rebutals to my inquiry (unless you really care).[This message has been edited by Philip, 02-16-2003]

I read your theistic reasons and appreciate your faith-biases somewhat. You may have alluded to Augustine who stated something like: "God uses natural means (vs. supernatural)" and I appreciate your scripture reference to "His ways are past finding out".Albeit, I was hoping for more gospel-like overtures, like I heard from one theistic-evo, essentially: With many deaths come many rebirths, renewed life, etc., as Christ died and gave birth to new and better life(s), which is irrefutable faith-bias in my view.

Theistic evolutionists may find consoling views in rebutting instant salvation, an ex-nihilo rebirth experience, etc., since they will often prefer liberalist interpretations, papacies, and/or broad interpretations of the what the gospel and the Bible is.The Bible warns of evangelicals who don't grow in faith after a supposed instant rebirth, deliverance, etc. (e.g., "Lake of Fire", "eternal torment", "worm that never dies", etc.)But to chide against instant Salvation, ex-nihilo re-birth, etc., (as you, Doc, myself, and T-L have stupidly done) is both anti-redemptive and anti-Christ. Fact is, you and I are born nothing and will take nothing out; our dogmatic absolutist opinions of the Bible merely darken the metaphysical facts of apparent redemptive events going on around us; observable redemptive events that we don't understand via the ToE alone.Salvation is not by works of empirical phenomena; it is a gift, period.Albeit there are scientist-evangelicals who are also theistic Evos due to their rather extreme empirical thought processes, if you will. I know one such loving and veritable rocket scientist who is weak in relativistic theory and thus erroneously equates atomic time with diurnal (e.g., planatary) time ...i.e., really stinky relativistic problems of our radiometric dating methods (i.e., that Schraf has yet to respond to ...hint, hint).In other words, my corrupt inner-teacher and your corrupt inner-teacher have a lot to learn and suffer. A delightful bash against us hypocritical evangelicals and my bashing of you "little Christs" (if you call yourself by the name Christian), is unprofitable.Bluntly speaking: guilt has you and I by the b?lls. Thus, we post to soothe our reprobate consciences, etc. Yes? No? Arbitrary?, Futile? Spam?(Note, I go to Haiti tomorrow for a few days; 'hope to pick up with any of you, later). Forgive, any undue crudeness or sloppiness of my methods.Philip[This message has been edited by Philip, 02-19-2003]