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Author Topic:   The Ark - materials, construction and seaworthness
RAZD
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Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 68 of 231 (327597)
06-29-2006 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by iano
06-28-2006 10:17 AM


iano writes:

Message 4
The skill and intelligence it would take to build such a thing renders such sub-technology childs play.

And engineers that can land robots on mars, which then drill samples and evaluate the contents ...

... are currently unable to design a wave pump\energy system that does significant work, most rely on some kind of tether to provide restraint to {work} against. Free floating is another matter altogether.

http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=7&t=112&m=41#41
whatever ...

and
http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=7&t=138&m=65#65
whatever ...

follow this last one for some discusson on this pump concept
http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=7&t=138&m=201#263
whatever ...

Enjoy.

Edited by RAZD, : added second reference

Edited by RAZD, : added another link


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This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 71 of 231 (327613)
06-29-2006 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Discreet Label
06-28-2006 1:26 PM


Re: Does it matter?
... is as stated as in the bible 450' X 75' X 45'

That's just the box it fits into, and gives no reference to the shape of the ship

see Marine Technologies, definitions page (click) for some idea of what is still missing.

Most pictures show it as boxy as possible in recognition of the finite size problem.

This does not address hogging and sagging problems as the boat rides through the waves - a cyclic stress that "works" the seams to open them and cause leaks - or dynamic stability.

Enjoy.


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RAZD
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Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
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Message 72 of 231 (327627)
06-29-2006 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by iano
06-28-2006 1:43 PM


Consider a tube connected to a hole in the hull and running up to the deck, it will act like a sight tube on a tank (what you could put on your motorcycle tank to gage the gas inside) and allow you to see the depth of the water outside the hull ... it will rise and fall with the waves, right?

Now pur a flapper valve at the bottom so water can only enter the tube from the bottom ... how high will the water get inside the tube? As high as the highest wave, as anything less will not be able to overcome the column of water already in the tube that wants to be at equilibrium with the outside level.

And what you are trying to pump out is denser than water, so if I fill the tube with that it will not reach the tops of the waves.

Your best bet is either windmill (not mentioned) or draft animal power (abundantly plentiful I believe) and the way water has historically been pumped in the middle east (where I understand there is sometimes a shortage).

Why go hi-tech when you can go 'K.I.S.S.' and an easily repairable\replacable system, especially if it was "known" technology:

In 1750 BC, in Babylon, Hammurabi promoted the extensive use of water-lifting devices such as counterweights
and animal powered wheels.

for pictures of them see
http://www.ummah.net/history/scholars/water/

Enjoy.


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This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 75 of 231 (327692)
06-30-2006 7:16 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by iano
06-30-2006 5:21 AM


Re: Whatever floats your boat
You are adding an unneccessary level of complication to a simple system and in the process introducing elements that are hard to maintain -- do you want to fix a leak in the float? If the float fails what is your backup? What are the loads on the float suspension arms fore and aft as well as athwartship? If the arm fails laterally there will be no pumping action. And how do you prevent water from coming in all those 'ventilation' byproducts?

Wooden sailing ships leaked constantly, and if this kind of thing would have had benefit over the pump system they used (manpower - cheap and readily available as well as inspired by self preservation to keep working) they would have tried it.

It also exercises the animals eh?

Enjoy.


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RAZD
Member
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 76 of 231 (327693)
06-30-2006 7:17 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by ikabod
06-30-2006 6:13 AM


Re: Whatever floats your boat
Don't forget you have ~ 4.5 billion-5000 years of biomass that "went extinct" during the flood to fertilize everywhere.


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This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
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Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 94 of 231 (328346)
07-02-2006 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by iano
06-30-2006 10:19 AM


Re: Whatever floats your boat
Message 79
We might expect the float to leak just like a rowing boat would. Occasional draining would be required. This is relatively easy to achieve.

Actually I was thinking of a hole wearing in the float that renders it inoperative.

An earlier post dealt which placing the float and connecting arm in a shaft (like a liftshaft) located against the inside wall of the ark whose bottom is open to the sea.

Which you just made much more likely due to friction against the side, as well as rendering repair next to impossible. If they all go at once due to wear and tear, then you (indeed) are in deep doo doo ...

When it comes to a life-sensitive system in a boat with no near source of rescue, give me one that (1) is simple and (A) can be easily repaired or replaced.


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RAZD
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Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
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Message 145 of 231 (329820)
07-08-2006 8:39 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by ikabod
06-30-2006 9:55 AM


Re: Whatever floats your boat
ikabod writes:

... true BUT the neutrients will have been wash out and disolved into the water , so are much more likely to end up in the oceans / seas /lake post flood that on the land , ...

So we should find fossils of land animals in the deep ocean eh?

...and the poo packed down as new ballast to store until needed .

I had this comment from a friend on another site:

(best reason for the impossibility of the ark: after two days, any attempt to light a lamp would ignite the methane produced by animal flatulence, and blow the ark out of the water like HMS Hood taking a broadside from the Bismarck . But I digress).

Packing poo would mean anaerobic decomposition = more methane.


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