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Consciousness Continued: A fresh start

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Author Topic:   Consciousness Continued: A fresh start
Chronos
Member (Idle past 6247 days)
Posts: 102
From: Macomb, Mi, USA
Joined: 10-23-2005

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Message 5 of 84 (312532)
05-16-2006 5:06 PM 		Reply to: Message 1 by Christian7
05-16-2006 1:12 PM

Consciousness does not occur in the physical world because consciousness is a component of a non-physical thing.
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I am a physical thing with consciousness.
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The motion of energy cannot be responsible for consciousness...
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Why not? You haven't demonstrated this point anywhere in your post.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Christian7, posted 05-16-2006 1:12 PM Christian7 has replied
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 Message 10 by Christian7, posted 05-16-2006 6:09 PM Chronos has replied
  
Chronos
Member (Idle past 6247 days)
Posts: 102
From: Macomb, Mi, USA
Joined: 10-23-2005

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Message 12 of 84 (312546)
05-16-2006 6:22 PM 		Reply to: Message 10 by Christian7
05-16-2006 6:09 PM

No, you are a soul with consciousness recieving input and directing output from and to a physical construct that is your body and brain.
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I haven't seen any reason to believe so.
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People seem entirely physical to me.
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I feel like I exist between my ears and behind my eyes, right where my brain is located.
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How can things moving around account for consciosuness. That would be a mighty big leap. For such a thing you would have to believe in magic.
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More of a leap than proposing an entirely new type of immeasurable substance? You're the one who is resorting to magical explanations, I am perfectly comfortable admitting that consciousness does not have a sufficient explanaion (magical or not). It does seem to end when your physical body quits functioning, however. I'm not saying that it does end, but I haven't seen a good reason to believe it continues to exist in any way.
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 Message 10 by Christian7, posted 05-16-2006 6:09 PM Christian7 has replied
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 Message 13 by Christian7, posted 05-16-2006 7:43 PM Chronos has replied
  
Chronos
Member (Idle past 6247 days)
Posts: 102
From: Macomb, Mi, USA
Joined: 10-23-2005

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Message 15 of 84 (312638)
05-16-2006 11:39 PM 		Reply to: Message 13 by Christian7
05-16-2006 7:43 PM

Its not a bigger leap because it is an alternative explanation to what already seems unreasonable.
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It's unreasonable to admit that we do not understand how consciousness arises? By your reasoning, wouldn't any alternative explanation be equally valid to the soul hypothesis?
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I don't think that an immesurable substance is magical. It simply doesn't have physical properties. Why can't such a substance exist?
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I don't think immeasurable substances exist in any useful sense. There could be an infinite amount of undetectable spew all over the place, no reason to posit that any of it exists until we have some evidence for it.
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Our concept of space is just an illusion anyway. And what is space made out of? Physical things can't exist out side of space? So what is space itself. How can space be physical? Maybe it is, I don't know. All I know, is that I THINK that space cannot be made out of any spatial material because it is the very medium by which physical things are manifested. But of course I could be wrong there.
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Where is outside of space?
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I don't even know that spacetime "exists," from my understanding (and I'm probably wrong, physics is not my fort) it's just a description of gravitational forces.
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Edited by Chronos, : No reason given.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Christian7, posted 05-16-2006 7:43 PM Christian7 has replied
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 Message 17 by Christian7, posted 05-17-2006 7:59 AM Chronos has replied
  
Chronos
Member (Idle past 6247 days)
Posts: 102
From: Macomb, Mi, USA
Joined: 10-23-2005

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Message 16 of 84 (312639)
05-16-2006 11:48 PM 		Reply to: Message 14 by Christian7
05-16-2006 7:45 PM

I do not believe that perceptions are inputed into the soul neither do I believe that decisions are outputed into the brain. I believe that the souls affects and corresponds to the electrical and chemical activity in the brain. It is the combination of the soul and the brain that create free will and conscious thought, perception, and sensatioanl experience.
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Are you just making a statement of faith, or are you going to tell us why you believe such things?
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You said the soul and brain do not communicate. How, then, does it effect the brain?
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How does the soul/brain combo give rise to consciousness?
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Do pretty much all animals with brains have souls?
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Do drugs have an effect on the soul? (Alcohol is known to affect judgement)
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Just a few questions to keep this train chug-a-luggin' along.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Christian7, posted 05-16-2006 7:45 PM Christian7 has replied
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 Message 18 by Christian7, posted 05-17-2006 8:02 AM Chronos has replied
  
Chronos
Member (Idle past 6247 days)
Posts: 102
From: Macomb, Mi, USA
Joined: 10-23-2005

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Message 41 of 84 (312961)
05-17-2006 5:52 PM 		Reply to: Message 18 by Christian7
05-17-2006 8:02 AM

So, the soul, would correspond with the electrical activity in the brain by being conscious of those areas. There need no be any communication.
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Are you more or less saying that the soul exists in a parallel (supernatural?) universe? How do the soul and brain remain in synch w/o communication?
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And, the soul could alter the electrical activity of the brain to affect it based on your decisions. But those decisions would be aided by the activity in your brain. The union of the brain and soul makeup the mind.
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How does the soul manipulate the brain w/o being physical or communicating with the brain?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Christian7, posted 05-17-2006 8:02 AM Christian7 has replied
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Chronos
Member (Idle past 6247 days)
Posts: 102
From: Macomb, Mi, USA
Joined: 10-23-2005

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Message 42 of 84 (312962)
05-17-2006 5:56 PM 		Reply to: Message 17 by Christian7
05-17-2006 7:59 AM

No because I explained that consciousness can't arise from physical matter alone.
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No you haven't.
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Not yet having a sufficient entirely physical explanation does not rule out the possibility of there being one.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Christian7, posted 05-17-2006 7:59 AM Christian7 has replied
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Chronos
Member (Idle past 6247 days)
Posts: 102
From: Macomb, Mi, USA
Joined: 10-23-2005

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Message 58 of 84 (313507)
05-19-2006 11:16 AM 		Reply to: Message 57 by Christian7
05-19-2006 8:10 AM

Well, if it is deliberate its not insanity.
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You don't think that insane people make deliberate decisions?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Christian7, posted 05-19-2006 8:10 AM Christian7 has replied
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