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Author Topic:   Most convincing evidence for creation theory
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5943 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 20 of 307 (411609)
07-21-2007 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Cold Foreign Object
07-21-2007 2:23 PM


Re: Positive Evidence
Ray writes:
Evolution claims to be making no statement about God, unlike Creationism.
True
Ray writes:
This means, if evolutionists are telling the truth about their theory saying nothing about God, what falsifies Creationism?
The data falsifies Creationism.
For example, how many non-religious young earth geologists do you find? You don't because the data does not support young earth.
Ray writes:
Therefore the main positive evidence for Creationism is the obvious reality of design seen in reality.
Consider that 40 percent of life is "designed" to be parasitic what does this say about the designer?
Edited by iceage, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 07-21-2007 2:23 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Grizz, posted 07-21-2007 3:32 PM iceage has replied
 Message 72 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 07-22-2007 6:16 PM iceage has not replied
 Message 83 by IamJoseph, posted 07-23-2007 8:39 AM iceage has not replied

iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5943 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 40 of 307 (411649)
07-21-2007 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Grizz
07-21-2007 3:32 PM


Did the Designer Design the Guinea Worm?
Griz writes:
play Devil's Advocate
I suspect the best arguments in the thread will come from Devil's Advocates.
This probably should be a topic on its own - primarily because the force of the arguement and i don't really want dilute this thread which I believe will demonstrate the paucity of positive evidence for Creation Science.
Griz writes:
Microgranisms and parasites play a very important role in oxidation and reduction reactions, which in turn play an important role in sustaining the chemical composition of Earth's oceans and atmosphere. For example, marine phytoplankton produces a large chunk of the oxygen in the Earth's atmosphere.
First off I don't believe phytoplankton are considered parasites - just a nit in your otherwise valid arguement. There are of course many examples of symbiotic and mutualistic parasites that we and other creatures benefit from.
However, there a substantial number of parasites whose life cycle is nothing short of diabolic and horrific. There are many parasites who "cheat" and live solely off the flesh of other organisms for its own benefit until the host dies. There also many parasites that don't necessarily kill their host but cause immeasurable pain, anguish and misery.
One graphic examples I often reach for in this arguement is the Guinea Worm. A quick look at the images of will turn your stomach
Here is a creature that has a complex life cycle that appears to be designed. There are many more like hookworm, tapeworms, malaria, trichinosis, pinworms, liver flukes, roundworms, heart worms, on-and-on that can make Swiss cheese out of your organs.
Just to save a posts on this topic: I want to note that these are complex animals that are finely tuned to their hosts and environment. These creature did not some benign existence and took up a more nefarious way of making a living after the "fall". They have the appearance of design and I am glad it is merely an appearance for if they were designed I think you better accommodate for an evil designer in your theology.
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Fixed one link. There was a space before one of the "".

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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5943 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 64 of 307 (411684)
07-21-2007 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by EltonianJames
07-21-2007 6:36 PM


Re: Did I Say That Out Loud?
The problem that these are not evidence at all.... I will just pick a couple because i promised my wife not to post again. On last time...
EltonianJames writes:
Many erect fossil trees in Nova Scotia were found "throughout 2,500 feet of geologic strata, penetrating 20 geologic horizons. These trees had to have been buried faster than it took them to decay. This implies that the entire formation was deposited in less than a few years."
You see there is evidence here but your last sentence jumps to the conclusion. There are many examples of forests being buried for a variety of reasons some fossilized some on their way.
EltonianJames writes:
Many strata are too tightly bent. In many mountainous areas, strata thousands of feet thick are bent and folded into hairpin shapes. The conventional geologic timescale says these formations were deeply buried and solidified for hundreds of millions of years before they were bent. Yet the folding occurred without cracking, with radii so small that the entire formation had to be still wet and unsolidified when the bending occurred. This implies that the folding occurred less than thousands of years after deposition."
This is one that the Creationist really need to drop. It is well known that rock will bend under the high temperature and huge hydrostatic pressures - it is called plastic deformation. These are not the conditions that we are normally use to so it is hard for us to understand. But many brittle materials such as rock and concrete will bend plasticly when under high pressure and temperature over long periods of time (creep). Some time folded rock formations will even have fossils that have also been deformed with the folding.

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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5943 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 175 of 307 (412378)
07-24-2007 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by Cold Foreign Object
07-24-2007 2:19 PM


Re: Best Positive Evidence
Ray writes:
Once the identification correspondence is made we then refer to the most respected and proven and factually infallible source for invisible Designer (the Bible)
Respected in your culture, maybe. Many Other cultures disagree.
The bible is not proven and it certainly not factually infallible. There are many aspects that falsify the Bible with respect to the nature of the world - lets start at the beginning: the order of appearance of the classes of life is wrong.
Ray writes:
Genesis special creation comes with it, evolution is falsified.
You do *not* understand falsification.
Ray writes:
Evolution is falsified right here: the same appearance logically does not correspond to an antonym (mindless natural selection).
Like i said you do *not* understand falsification - you just do not fully comprehend how well evolution explains the appearance of design.
The appearance of design does correspond to natural selection. Natural selection generates appearance of design by filtering better functioning "designs" over the less functioning "designs".
Further there are *many* aspects in nature that exist that do not serve to as some optimal survival "appearance of design" feature. Examples include: long tail birds, brightly colored fish and over antlered ungulates. These attributes do not have the "appearance of design" for survival but are byproducts of a sexually selection process.
Ray writes:
The amount of illogical special pleading that the evolutionist engages in...
The creationist are those engaging in special pleading. Evolution is based on evidence not special pleading.
Ray writes:
Whence sayest the evolutionist, "our theory says nothing about God"? Wherein everytime the evolutionist denies design to correspond to the work of invisible Designer.
"Everytime"? You should not use infinitives. There are theist that have a range of beliefs in the activity of the designer in course of evolution - yours "this or that" position is really in the minority.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 07-24-2007 2:19 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5943 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 228 of 307 (412716)
07-25-2007 10:36 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by Cold Foreign Object
07-25-2007 10:04 PM


Re: Summary to date ... what there is ...
Ray writes:
Let's start with the textual evidence, the Bible.
Oh details, great! What textual evidence do you have in the Bible that is the most convincing in support of creation theory?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 07-25-2007 10:04 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 229 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 07-25-2007 10:42 PM iceage has replied

iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5943 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 232 of 307 (412726)
07-26-2007 12:58 AM
Reply to: Message 229 by Cold Foreign Object
07-25-2007 10:42 PM


Re: Summary to date ... what there is ...
Iceage writes:
What textual evidence
Ray writes:
The Bible is the source for Creation "theory."
Source for one of many creation myths.
Nevertheless the topic is "Evidence" not claims - you are confusing claims with evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 07-25-2007 10:42 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
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