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Author Topic:   Creationist quotes and citations reflects a greater level of academic dishonesty
JonF
Member (Idle past 196 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 9 of 70 (109888)
05-22-2004 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by almeyda
05-22-2004 7:46 AM


I will comment on a couple of those that caught my eye.
Almeyda, "quote mining" is a form of lying. The people who selected thos quotes (obviously it wasn't you; you haven't read the sources) purposefully chose them to not accurately reflect the views of the speaker. You are lying by not telling us where you really got those quotes, and you are propagating lies by posting those quotes.
"Evolutionism is a fairy tale for grown-ups. This theory has helped nothing in the progress of science. It is useless" - Prof Louis Bounoure
This is actualy a pastiche of sentences from two people; the first is a distorted version of a quote from Jean Rostand, and the second and third from Bouonoure.
Rostand actually wrote "Transformism is a fairy tale for adults." but he also wrote "Transformism may be considered as accepted, and no scientist, no philosopher, no longer discusses [questions - ED.] the fact of evolution."
Bounoure was actually arguing against excessive discussion of the mechanics of evolution, not evolution itself.
See Cretinism or Evilution? No. 3: More Out of Context Quotations of French Scientists
"The absence of fossil evidence for intermediary stages between major transitions in organic design, indeed our inability, even in our imagination, to construct functional intermediates in many cases, has been a persistent and nagging problem for gradualistic accounts of evolution" Stephen Jay Ghould
A classic mined quote. Gould is a major proponent of evolution by puncuated equilibrium, and this sentence is just part of his discussion of puncutaed equilibrium versus gradualism. See Quote 50.

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JonF
Member (Idle past 196 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 12 of 70 (109923)
05-22-2004 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Lithodid-Man
05-22-2004 6:47 PM


I think it would be fun to start a webpage with YEC quotes taken out of context to show that Creationism is false.
Been done. {changed in edit} CREATIONIST QUOTES.
This message has been edited by JonF, 05-22-2004 07:35 PM

This message is a reply to:
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JonF
Member (Idle past 196 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 21 of 70 (109976)
05-23-2004 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by almeyda
05-23-2004 6:15 AM


admit these quotes are taken out from a longer story/article. But the fact is these quotes arent so much taken out of context.
You don't have the slightest idea whether they are taken out of context or not. As I pointed out, at least one is not even a quote from one person.
But this is evolutionists themselves speaking on significant problems with the theory.
No, some of them are evolutionists speaking out on small issues within the theory, some are not evolutionists, and some are just plain made up.
Why then do the creation scientist stand so proudly against evolution?. These scientist have the same degress and PhDs, same achievments. Awards and prize winners for there discoveries and achievements.
No, a very few of them have the same degrees, but none of them have any relevant scientific achievements or awards or prizes, and the vast majority of them have no scientific achievements, awards, or prizes.
I got those quotes from the Revised Quote book.
Ah, a famous source of lies. See The Revised Quote Book:: Looking at how Creationists Quote Evolutionists.

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JonF
Member (Idle past 196 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 22 of 70 (109980)
05-23-2004 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Lithodid-Man
05-23-2004 7:04 AM


Read Darwin's Origin Of Species. Truly read it from cover to cover. I am sure you can pick it up from your local used bookseller for a song.
There's many versions online. The first edition, another first edition (part of The writings of Charles Darwin on the web), the sixth edition, another sixth edition, the sixth edition in one text file, and undoubtedly more.

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JonF
Member (Idle past 196 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 25 of 70 (109999)
05-23-2004 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by almeyda
05-23-2004 10:25 AM


After reading this do you still think their are not real scientist who work under a different assumption rather than evolution?.
Not in biology. There are a few, a very very few, scientists in fields outside of biology who don't accept evolution, and since their work has nothing to do with evolution, their contrafactual beliefs don't interfere. Similarly, the very very few geologists who don't accept an old Earth and actually do geology use old Earth in their scientific work ... because a young Earth doesn't work.
Most of that page consists of irrelevancies, especially the list of scientists who beleived in God. Belief in God is very different from belief in the peculiar interpretation of the Bible promulgated by YECs.
You do however have to be a evolutionist to get anywhere in the mainstream scientific communities, or if you want to teach science in the education system.
Yeah, that discrimination against cranks and crackpots is the pits, isn't it? It would be ever so much better if any loon that came up with a hypothesis were allowed to teach it, even if the evidence contradicts it.
Creation "science" had its day. It was the dominant "theory", but it was abandoned because it just doesn't fit the facts. Claims about being scientific, lists of people with degrees, whatever AIG says ... young Earth creationism just doesn't fit the facts.

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JonF
Member (Idle past 196 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 30 of 70 (110049)
05-23-2004 10:21 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by almeyda
05-23-2004 9:42 PM


Re: Absolutely.
Many branches of modern science were founded by believers in creation.
Yes, and they all used the methodological naturalism that YECs discard and decry in order to found those branches of science. They never considered any possibility that God intervened to prevent the scientific method from reaching the correct answers.
It was God that taught man that the earth was real, orderly, consistent, and possible to investigate.
Unsupported assertion. Does not follow from the premise.

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JonF
Member (Idle past 196 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 64 of 70 (110864)
05-27-2004 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by Lithodid-Man
05-26-2004 7:32 PM


The universe exists and life evolves (I have seen the latter)
Implying you have not seen the former?

This message is a reply to:
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