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Author Topic:   coded information in DNA
NosyNed
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Posts: 8889
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
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Message 70 of 334 (510441)
05-31-2009 8:16 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by Percy
05-31-2009 7:47 AM


Symbolic?
Percy, please don't take this wrong, but until you can make the distinction between matter containing it's own "personal" information, and matter that contains coded information using is a system of symbols used by a encoding/decoding mechanism that transmits a message independent of itself, I'm afraid we will not be talking about the same thing.

Again, you're trying to draw a distinction that doesn't exist, and you're insisting on a restricted definition of code that was crafted for the specific context of communications in a digital age. The information that there's a large mass nearby in the form of star is communicated in the form of electromagnetic radiation and gravity that takes about eight minutes to arrive. Clearly information is being communicated from the star to us, else we couldn't know it was there. Until you have an inclusive definition of information and codes, your ideas won't be representative of the real world.

I think I see a point of fundamental confusion. I'm not sure but maybe I do.

WBL suggests that only a "code" that transmits a message that is purely "abstract", that is, is symbolic and not a part of the physical nature of the medium of which the code is built is what he is talking about.

Thus a message in English writing can be in the form of a book, words produced by an LCD screen, or dots and dashes of Morse code and still have the same "symbolic meaning". The message (information) is independent of the carrier. I think that is a requirement he has but I'm not sure.

Of course, if the above is true, then DNA is not a code meeting this definition. It can not be conveyed in any other way and still "work". It is pure chemistry and the "sender" and "receiver" are chemical reactions which have to have it in it's chemical form.


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 Message 69 by Percy, posted 05-31-2009 7:47 AM Percy has responded

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 Message 72 by Percy, posted 05-31-2009 8:26 AM NosyNed has not yet responded

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8889
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 128 of 334 (510823)
06-03-2009 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by WordBeLogos
06-03-2009 8:59 PM


Why not exactly?
This does not qualify as coded information as per Shannon's comunication model.

Stating it doesn't make it so. Why, exactly doesn't it qualify as per Shannon? Be very precise, please.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by WordBeLogos, posted 06-03-2009 8:59 PM WordBeLogos has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by WordBeLogos, posted 06-03-2009 9:57 PM NosyNed has responded

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8889
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 135 of 334 (510834)
06-03-2009 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by WordBeLogos
06-03-2009 9:57 PM


Re: Why not exactly?
And where exactly does Shannon's information come into it? I see no mention of Shannon at all.

How about you explain it yourself? You are supposed to understand the arguments you are making. It isn't clear yet that you do.

In addition, I see no "red marks" anywhere on a DNA molecule. Just how is it "coded" any differently than the mercury (without marks) is or isn't coded?


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 Message 129 by WordBeLogos, posted 06-03-2009 9:57 PM WordBeLogos has not yet responded

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