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Author Topic:   why did an evolved life-form invent "god"?
joz
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 49 (43957)
06-24-2003 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by tomwillrep
06-22-2003 10:14 AM


quote:
why did an evolved life-form that came from nothing, and evolved over time evolve into its current state "invent" a god - and make records of our relationship with god - thousands of years before we "revelaed" how we were created by evolution, especially at a time when christianity was a huge thing in england?
Because about 90% of humanity takes some sort of perverse pleasure in delusional beliefs.....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by tomwillrep, posted 06-22-2003 10:14 AM tomwillrep has not replied

  
Number_ 19
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 49 (44305)
06-26-2003 7:32 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by tomwillrep
06-22-2003 10:14 AM


First question is an easy answer.Human have always wanted more...more life more food ect.this is why they would make up a belief system that supported their own views in an attempt to brainwash early people.Which may have succeded in your case!
The second,we did'nt write yet.
The third,look at the first answer.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by tomwillrep, posted 06-22-2003 10:14 AM tomwillrep has not replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 49 (44396)
06-26-2003 11:38 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Admin
06-24-2003 9:38 AM


Re: Guideline Reminder
For what it is worth, I didn't call tomwillrep a racist. I don't think he is. I said the comment he made was racist. It was. Pick up a pro-racism tract, and you'll find the statement he made or a very close relative of it. You can go back a hundred and fifty years and more and find the same idea used to support racism. It was harsh. Sorry.
------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Admin, posted 06-24-2003 9:38 AM Admin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by hollygolightly, posted 06-27-2003 12:36 AM John has not replied

  
hollygolightly
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 49 (44403)
06-27-2003 12:36 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by John
06-26-2003 11:38 PM


Re: Guideline Reminder
I have to agree with John, the comment was a racist comment. I was just researching this very topic for the last 2 days and to suppose that people still in Africa would be closer to an ape culture than people anywhere else in the world is racist. However, I don't think the comment was "intended" to be racist, I think it's a sincere misunderstanding of the issue of "time". At least, I hope so.
Anyway, I'm new here so don't come down too hard on me just yet. I've been reading the forums for a few days now, want to thank all of those arguing for evolution for making science a little easier for me to grasp. Although I am a big believer in science I'm slow to understand it, so don't always feel your "preaching to the deaf", I, for one, am learning. 'Course, I already am an atheist and an evolutionist, just now I understand the mechanisms of those beliefs better.
Melissa

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by John, posted 06-26-2003 11:38 PM John has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Autocatalysis, posted 06-27-2003 1:01 AM hollygolightly has replied
 Message 29 by nator, posted 06-27-2003 10:13 PM hollygolightly has not replied
 Message 30 by Peter, posted 06-30-2003 10:07 AM hollygolightly has not replied

  
Autocatalysis
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 49 (44406)
06-27-2003 1:01 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by hollygolightly
06-27-2003 12:36 AM


Don’t believe in evolution before you understand it! It might seem wise to have faith in the plethora of scientists, which concur on a subject. But you must exercise your critical judgement in all aspects of scientific inquiry.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by hollygolightly, posted 06-27-2003 12:36 AM hollygolightly has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by hollygolightly, posted 06-27-2003 1:24 AM Autocatalysis has replied
 Message 24 by Andya Primanda, posted 06-27-2003 2:20 AM Autocatalysis has not replied

  
hollygolightly
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 49 (44409)
06-27-2003 1:24 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Autocatalysis
06-27-2003 1:01 AM


My statement was that I did not understand *all* of science, that I have a hard time grasping *some* of the *details*. I was raised Lutheran, was a literal "Jesus Freak" in my latter high school years, shortly afterwards (after having read the bible, no less) converted to wicca for just over 10 years. I have done much research on both religion and science and my conclusion and beliefs are that there is no god whatsoever and science is far more accurate than religion. I understand enough of science and evolution to believe in it, I was just impressed with the "fine tuning" that was put to it that made me able to grasp some of the finer details that escaped me when reading dry, technical books about science.
For example, one thing that took me a long time to grasp was the idea of "color". As explained in all the science terminology and such I was at a loss, I didn't grasp the concept until it was explained to me in the simple term that the "color" the object "doesn't like" is "pushed out" and therefore that is the color we see. Now, having it explained to me that way, I was suddenly able to go back over the more "technical" explanations and finally *fully* understand it.
Melissa

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Autocatalysis, posted 06-27-2003 1:01 AM Autocatalysis has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Autocatalysis, posted 06-27-2003 1:39 AM hollygolightly has replied

  
Autocatalysis
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 49 (44412)
06-27-2003 1:39 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by hollygolightly
06-27-2003 1:24 AM


My point is that the terms, faith and belief, are not really appropriate in science. Unless your studying psychology, LOL. Creationists argue that evolution is a theology. Its not. To be fair, I think and empirical observation can only impart truth within the paradigm of inquiry. Some will disagree with me, but I see this as a major hurdle in scientific reasoning.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by hollygolightly, posted 06-27-2003 1:24 AM hollygolightly has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by hollygolightly, posted 06-27-2003 2:12 AM Autocatalysis has replied

  
hollygolightly
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 49 (44413)
06-27-2003 2:12 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Autocatalysis
06-27-2003 1:39 AM


Okay, I understand what you're saying, but I didn't say I had faith in anything, as a matter of fact I don't have faith in anything. I did say the word "believe", and in looking up the definition, just to be clear, I will concede your point, although there are actual "facts" within sciences. I work in the medical field, and I have a chronic disease, so most of my science is more fine-tuned in that area than any other, and even then I admit it is still very limited when considering how vast an area this is, but there are certain "facts" within that science.
Which side are you coming from, evolution or creation? I've caught a few other posts of yours, and I'm inclined to think you're an evolutionist. In reading some of the forums on here where it seems a lot of the creationists will not even remotely listen to or try to grasp even the basics of science, I would think that someone admitting they wanted to learn and understand more would be a breath of fresh air. lol. I guess I'm starting off on the wrong foot here. Let me say this, I'm not an idiot. I do understand a lot about science, I'd even go as far as saying I probably understand more than would be expected of someone who doesn't technically study science for a living. I can definitely carry on a pretty good discussion/debate about science, but I will also readily admit when I get "lost", and ask for more information/clarification. As stated elsewhere on this website "no one knows everything", I'm simply trying to learn more, but from what I've seen evolution is winning over creationism in my book. And just one more thing, if my previous "example" gave you the idea that I'm stupid about science, that incident was *years* ago, in high school as a matter of fact. I didn't just figure that one out yesterday. It just always stuck with me as one of those "and the lightbulb lights up" moments.
Melissa

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Autocatalysis, posted 06-27-2003 1:39 AM Autocatalysis has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Autocatalysis, posted 06-27-2003 2:41 AM hollygolightly has replied

  
Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 49 (44414)
06-27-2003 2:20 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Autocatalysis
06-27-2003 1:01 AM


quote:
Don’t believe in evolution before you understand it!
Gee, nice quote man! I've come across some people who were already convinced that evolution is right and then does not bother to check the facts. Usually then they promote some kind of teleological evolution...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Autocatalysis, posted 06-27-2003 1:01 AM Autocatalysis has not replied

  
Autocatalysis
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 49 (44415)
06-27-2003 2:41 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by hollygolightly
06-27-2003 2:12 AM


Owww, look I don’t think your and idiot! Nothing in your posts would lean me to that conclusion. I wasn’t trying to be hostile, people here are generally very tolerant and considerate but they want a debate! I wouldn’t be here if I thought I knew it all!
My personal views on creation are that YEC is both anti god (not their god obviously, but a Christian god) and anti science. Though I am an atheist.
What creationists lack in logic they makeup in faith. You can’t change someone’s mind who has faith, what logic you tell them is a lie and always will be. I am not here to pull people away from YEC, but rather to learn how people can hold a point of view, which is so difficult to sustain.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by hollygolightly, posted 06-27-2003 2:12 AM hollygolightly has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by hollygolightly, posted 06-27-2003 3:12 AM Autocatalysis has not replied

  
hollygolightly
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 49 (44417)
06-27-2003 3:12 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Autocatalysis
06-27-2003 2:41 AM


Autocatalysis~
I didn't mean to sound hostile either, I apologize if I did. I agree with your previous post. It's kind of hard to get "emotions and tones" through the 'Net, and I admit I can be a little "touchy" at times, it has to do with having agoraphobia, I apologize. Also, I've been lurking a few days now and I am well aware not to get involved in debating a topic unless I am quite knowledgable in said topic.
As an aside, it's interesting how I even ended up on this site. I was actually trying to look up the production cost of insulin, which led to a site called "things creationists hate" (which included insulin) and that led to this site. All of my 'Net searches end up totally off the original subject.
Alas, it's late and I need sleep. G'night all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Autocatalysis, posted 06-27-2003 2:41 AM Autocatalysis has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by NosyNed, posted 06-27-2003 3:26 AM hollygolightly has not replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9003
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 27 of 49 (44419)
06-27-2003 3:26 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by hollygolightly
06-27-2003 3:12 AM


I am well aware not to get involved in debating a topic unless I am quite knowledgable in said topic.
I don't think that means you have to just lurk. I think it just means you have to be careful in the approach you choose when posting. There is nothing wrong with asking honest questions to get something clarified if someone says something you don't understand.
There is also nothing wrong with saying what you think you already know or have heard somewhere. You just shouldn't be too dogmatic about it until you've gathered a bit more information.
Heck, I post stuff all the time when I'm only partially informed on the topic. I think there would be a very much smaller number of posts if only those who really knew something about the topic posted. LOL
You may have seen some somewhat annoyed reactions to postings by those who display (proudly even) ignorance and dogmatism at the same time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by hollygolightly, posted 06-27-2003 3:12 AM hollygolightly has not replied

  
contracycle
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 49 (44431)
06-27-2003 7:19 AM


I echo Ned's sentiments.
In fact, I would go so far as to say, that science should be able to handle all comers gladly. We are confident in our methods, in our evidences, and mostly in our conclusions. We don;t need to be setting barriers for people BEFORE they join the debate; we can and should rely on our position to the carry the argument.
All that said, however, theists are on shaky ground asserting the science is equvalent to religion, and that claim can be rejected and indeed scorned, IMO.

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2192 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 29 of 49 (44495)
06-27-2003 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by hollygolightly
06-27-2003 12:36 AM


Re: Guideline Reminder
Hoooray!! Another woman!
Hi Melissa, glad to have you aboard.
Allison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by hollygolightly, posted 06-27-2003 12:36 AM hollygolightly has not replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1501 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 30 of 49 (44678)
06-30-2003 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by hollygolightly
06-27-2003 12:36 AM


Re: Guideline Reminder
quote:
However, I don't think the comment was "intended" to be racist,
I don't think a comment can be racist unless it is intended
to be.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by hollygolightly, posted 06-27-2003 12:36 AM hollygolightly has not replied

  
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