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Author Topic:   New Origin Views Comparison Chart - Is it Accurate/Complete or Not?...
petrophysics1
Inactive Member


Message 61 of 70 (404111)
06-06-2007 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Dr Adequate
06-02-2007 2:41 PM


Re: A Nearly Empty Cup
Dr A writes:

350,000,000 years*. If you can show me a species that's remained stable for that long, I will eat my hat.

Lingula, an inarticulate brachipod, Early Cambrian to recent.

That's about 550,000,000 years.


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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8838
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 62 of 70 (404116)
06-06-2007 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by petrophysics1
06-06-2007 5:23 PM


Long enduring species?
Dr A writes:

350,000,000 years*. If you can show me a species that's remained stable for that long, I will eat my hat.

petrophysics writes:

Lingula, an inarticulate brachipod, Early Cambrian to recent.

That's about 550,000,000 years.

Apparently Lingula is a genus not a species. Though I'm surprised that a genus can hang on that long too.


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RAZD
Member
Posts: 19758
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 63 of 70 (404117)
06-06-2007 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by NosyNed
06-06-2007 5:36 PM


Re: Long enduring species? 3.5 Byr?
what about the cyano-bacteria that is the oldest fossil life known: isn't it similar to the stromatolite producing cyano-bacteria of today? If the only difference is arbitrary speciation (non-arbitrary means visible\known separation between two daughter species).

Sure there would be mutations and selections in between, but if at every stage these are no different than the amount of diversity within any species, then are they not the same species? (ie - problem is species definition).

Enjoy.


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molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 721 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 64 of 70 (404119)
06-06-2007 5:59 PM


Any word yet?
mpb1?
Any luck with your interviews?
Replies to this message:
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mpb1
Member (Idle past 4217 days)
Posts: 66
From: Texas
Joined: 03-24-2007


Message 65 of 70 (404130)
06-06-2007 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by molbiogirl
06-06-2007 5:59 PM


Re: Any word yet?

I do this stuff in spurts... Make a little money... get back to science stuff (or whatever else)... go broke... Currently in the broke stage. Need to make some money and then get back to this stuff later... :)

But I've gotten enough feedback on the chart to sufficiently update it. Hope to do that in the next week or two...

Mark


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Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-07-2007 9:03 AM mpb1 has responded

    
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 721 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 66 of 70 (404132)
06-06-2007 7:06 PM


Currently in the broke stage.

As a grad student, I empathize.
Dunno bout you, but I retreat to science to take my mind off $.
Haven't you any time in the evenings to peruse a link or two?


  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16085
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 67 of 70 (404207)
06-07-2007 9:03 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by mpb1
06-06-2007 6:51 PM


Re: Any word yet?
Oh, good, you're still here.

Would you like to talk about irreducible complexity? This is one of the simpler ones.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by mpb1, posted 06-07-2007 10:52 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
mpb1
Member (Idle past 4217 days)
Posts: 66
From: Texas
Joined: 03-24-2007


Message 68 of 70 (404299)
06-07-2007 10:52 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Dr Adequate
06-07-2007 9:03 AM


Re: Any word yet?
Hey DA,

I'm not exactly sure what you mean (since this issue wasn't really brought up in this thread as a problem in the chart — at least I don't think it was).

I only mentioned irreducible complexity in the chart because it is a cornerstone of ID. From what I have read, it seems that the whole concept of irreducible complexity isn't really provable or disprovable . That's the way it seems to me anyway... But if you want to post anything on IC, I certainly don't mind. The admin will probably say to stop going in that direction (in this thread) if people start debating it though.

I'll be 'out' for a while myself. Hope to get back into this stuff soon though.

Mark

-

Edited by mpb1, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-08-2007 7:57 PM mpb1 has not yet responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16085
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 69 of 70 (404425)
06-08-2007 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by mpb1
06-07-2007 10:52 PM


Irreducible Complexity
I'm not exactly sure what you mean (since this issue wasn't really brought up in this thread as a problem in the chart — at least I don't think it was).

I did mention it briedly.

A system is considered to be IC if the removal of any one part would make it nonfunctional.

This means, say the IDers, that an IC system cannot evolve.

WRONG.

What they need to say to be accurate is that it can't have evolved in such a way that the last step in its evolution was the wholesale addition of a part.

Well, right. No, it can't have.

As an example of something not evolving that way, consider the three little bones in the mammal ear which conduct sound.

(1: incus; 2: stapes; 3: malleus.)

Remove one from the chain, and the system can't conduct sound. This is an IC system. And we know how it evolved from parts of the reptile jaw. We can see this in the fossil record, we can see the bones migrate in mammalian embryos, and we understand the process: how fish used their jaws just as jaws, how reptiles use the vibrations of their jawbones to pick up ground vibrations, and how we use them exclusively as transmitters of vibrations and not as jawbones, with the mammal-like reptiles coming between the reptiles and us mammals.

Any questions?


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ok boy
Member (Idle past 2769 days)
Posts: 12
Joined: 05-22-2006


Message 70 of 70 (412799)
07-26-2007 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Dr Adequate
06-02-2007 12:32 PM


Re: "For All The World To See"?
In a move that has stunned scientists, senior clergy have demanded that the bones and skulls currently exhibited in Nairobi's National Museum of Kenya be removed from display to prevent young Africans from being corrupted.

'It's creating a big weapon against Christians that's killing our faith,' said Bishop Boniface Adoyo, who is leading the hide-the-bones campaign. 'When children go to museums they'll start believing we evolved from these apes.'

gaah, the irony! it burns!


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