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Author Topic:   Most convincing evidence for evolutionary theory
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 311 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 20 of 189 (398785)
05-02-2007 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Doddy
05-01-2007 1:25 AM


I'll go with the simple fact that creationists have had a century and a half to find a single piece of evidence against the theory of evolution: and they've failed.
Now that's a well-verified theory.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Doddy, posted 05-01-2007 1:25 AM Doddy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Doddy, posted 05-02-2007 8:25 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 311 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 43 of 189 (400374)
05-12-2007 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Doddy
05-02-2007 8:25 PM


No. If I wanted to explain the theory of evolution to a creationist, I'd start off by explaining what the theory of evolution is. 'Cos most of 'em wouldn't know it from a hole in the ground.
But the most compelling fact in favor of any theory is that there are no, zero, 0, zilch, bupkiss facts which contradict it. It's predictive and it works.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 311 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 54 of 189 (402386)
05-26-2007 7:25 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by SpecKeta
05-26-2007 5:00 AM


I've always been good at science but evolution never made any sense to me. They could give all these little tiny details (probably didnt mean anything anyway), but I could never get over the major flaws.
I wonder why these "major flaws" aren't evident to practicing scientists? You know, biologists, paleotologists, 72 American Nobel Prize Winners, and Louise Lamphere, President of the American Anthropological Association; Mary Pat Matheson, President of the American Assn of Botanical Gardens and Arboreta; Eugenie Scott, President of the American Association of Physical Anthropologists; Robert Milkey, Executive Officer of the American Astronomical Society; Barbara Joe Hoshiazaki, President of the American Fern Society; Oliver A. Ryder, President of the American Genetic Association; Larry Woodfork, President of the American Geological Institute; Marcia McNutt, President of the American Geophysical Union; Judith S. Weis, President of the American Institute of Biological Sciences; Arvind K.N. Nandedkar, President of the American Institute of Chemists; Robert H. Fakundiny, President of the American Institute of Professional Geologists; Hyman Bass, President of the American Mathematical Society; Ronald D. McPherson, Executive Director of the American Meteorological Society; John W. Fitzpatrick, President of the American Ornithologists' Union; George Trilling, President of the American Physical Society; Martin Frank, Executive Director of the American Physiological Society; Steven Slack, President of the American Phytopathological Society; Raymond D. Fowler, Chief Executive Officer American Psychological Association; Alan Kraut, Executive Director of the American Psychological Society; Catherine E. Rudder, Executive Director of the American Political Science Association; Robert D. Wells, President of the American Society for Biochemistry and Molecular Biology; Abigail Salyers, President of the American Society for Microbiology; Brooks Burr, President of the American Society of Ichthylogists & Herpetologists; Thomas H. Kunz, President of the American Society of Mammalogists; Mary Anne Holmes, President of the Association for Women Geoscientists; Linda H. Mantel, President of the Association for Women in Science; Ronald F. Abler, Executive Director of the Association of American Geographers; Vicki Cowart, President of the Association of American State Geologists; Nils Hasselmo, President of the Association of American Universities; Thomas A. Davis, President of the Assn. of College & University Biology Educators; Richard Jones, President of the Association of Earth Science Editors; Rex Upp, President of the Association of Engineering Geologists; Robert R. Haynes, President of the Association of Southeastern Biologists; Kenneth R. Ludwig, Director of the Berkeley Geochronology Center; Rodger Bybee, Executive Director of the Biological Sciences Curriculum Study; Mary Dicky Barkley, President of the Biophysical Society; Judy Jernstedt, President of the Botanical Society of America; Ken Atkins, Secretary of the Burlington-Edison Cmte. for Science Education; Austin Dacey, Director of the Center for Inquiry Institute; Blair F. Jones, President of the Clay Minerals Society; Barbara Forrest, President of the Citizens for the Advancement of Science Education; Timothy Moy, President of the Coalition for Excellence in Science and Math Education; K. Elaine Hoagland, National Executive Officer Council on Undergraduate Research; David A. Sleper, President of the Crop Science Society of America; Steve Culver, President of the Cushman Foundation for Foraminiferal Research; Pamela Matson, President of the Ecological Society of America; Larry L. Larson, President of the Entomological Society of America; Royce Engstrom, Chair of the Board of Directors of the EPSCoR Foundation; Robert R. Rich, President of the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology; Stephen W. Porges, President of the Federation of Behavioral, Psychological and Cognitive Sciences; Roger D. Masters, President of the Foundation for Neuroscience and Society; Kevin S. Cummings, President of the Freshwater Mollusk Conservation Society; Sharon Mosher, President of the Geological Society of America; Dennis J. Richardson, President of the Helminthological Society of Washington; Aaron M. Bauer, President of the Herpetologists' League; William Perrotti, President of the Human Anatomy & Physiology Society; Lorna G. Moore, President of the Human Biology Association; Don Johanson, Director of the Institute of Human Origins; Harry McDonald, President of the Kansas Association of Biology Teachers; Steve Lopes, President of the Kansas Citizens For Science; Margaret W. Reynolds, Executive Director of the Linguistic Society of America; Robert T. Pennock, President of the Michigan Citizens for Science; Cornelis "Kase" Klein,President of the Mineralogical Society of America; Ann Lumsden, President of the National Association of Biology Teachers; Darryl Wilkins, President of the National Association for Black Geologists & Geophysicists; Steven C. Semken, President of the National Association of Geoscience Teachers; Kevin Padian, President of the National Center for Science Education; Tom Ervin, President of the National Earth Science Teachers Association; Gerald Wheeler, Executive Director of the National Science Teachers Association; Meredith Lane, President of the Natural Science Collections Alliance; Cathleen May, President of the Newkirk Engler & May Foundation; Dave Thomas, President of the New Mexicans for Science and Reason; Marshall Berman, President (elect) of the New Mexico Academy of Science; Connie J. Manson, President of the Northwest Geological Society; Lydia Villa-Komaroff, Vice Pres. for Research Northwestern University; Gary S. Hartshorn, President of the Organization for Tropical Studies; Warren Allmon, Director of the Paleontological Research Institution; Patricia Kelley, President of the Paleontological Society; Henry R. Owen, Director of Phi Sigma: The Biological Sciences Honor Society; Charles Yarish, President of the Phycological Society of America; Barbara J. Moore, President and CEO of Shape Up America!; Robert L. Kelly, President of the Society for American Archaeology; Richard Wilk, President of the Society for Economic Anthropology; Marvalee Wake, President of the Society for Integrative and Comparative Biology; Gilbert Strang, Past-Pres. & Science Policy Chair of the Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics; Prasanta K. Mukhopadhyay, President of the Society for Organic Petrology; Howard E. Harper, Executive Director of the Society for Sedimentary Geology; Nick Barton, President of the Society for the Study of Evolution; Deborah Sacrey, President of the Society of Independent Professional Earth Scientists; J.D. Hughes, President of the Society of Petroleum Evaluation Engineers; Lea K. Bleyman, President of the Society of Protozoologists; Elizabeth Kellogg, President of the Society of Systematic Biologists; David L. Eaton, President of the Society of Toxicology; Richard Stuckey, President of the Society of Vertebrate Paleontology; Pat White, Executive Director of the Triangle Coalition for Science and Technology Education; Richard A. Anthes, President of the University Corporation for Atmospheric Research and the Albanian Academy of Sciences; National Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences, Argentina; Australian Academy of Science; Austrian Academy of Sciences; Bangladesh Academy of Sciences; The Royal Academies for Science and the Arts of Belgium; Academy of Sciences and Arts of Bosnia and Herzegovina; Brazilian Academy of Sciences; Bulgarian Academy of Sciences; The Academies of Arts, Humanities and Sciences of Canada; Academia Chilena de Ciencias; Chinese Academy of Sciences; Academia Sinica, China, Taiwan; Colombian Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences; Croatian Academy of Arts and Sciences; Cuban Academy of Sciences; Academy of Sciences of the Czech Republic; Royal Danish Academy of Sciences and Letters; Academy of Scientific Research and Technology, Egypt; Académie des Sciences, France; Union of German Academies of Sciences and Humanities; The Academy of Athens, Greece; Hungarian Academy of Sciences; Indian National Science Academy; Indonesian Academy of Sciences; Academy of Sciences of the Islamic Republic of Iran; Royal Irish Academy; Israel Academy of Sciences and Humanities; Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei, Italy; Science Council of Japan; Kenya National Academy of Sciences; National Academy of Sciences of the Kyrgyz Republic; Latvian Academy of Sciences; Lithuanian Academy of Sciences; Macedonian Academy of Sciences and Arts; Academia Mexicana de Ciencias; Mongolian Academy of Sciences; Academy of the Kingdom of Morocco; The Royal Netherlands Academy of Arts and Sciences; Academy Council of the Royal Society of New Zealand; Nigerian Academy of Sciences; Pakistan Academy of Sciences; Palestine Academy for Science and Technology; Academia Nacional de Ciencias del Peru; National Academy of Science and Technology, The Philippines; Polish Academy of Sciences; Académie des Sciences et Techniques du Sénégal; Serbian Academy of Sciences and Arts; Singapore National Academy of Sciences; Slovak Academy of Sciences; Slovenian Academy of Sciences and Arts; Academy of Science of South Africa; Royal Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences of Spain; National Academy of Sciences, Sri Lanka; Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences; Council of the Swiss Scientific Academies; Academy of Sciences, Republic of Tajikistan; Turkish Academy of Sciences; The Uganda National Academy of Sciences; The Royal Society, UK; US National Academy of Sciences; Uzbekistan Academy of Sciences; Academia de Ciencias Físicas, Matemáticas y Naturales de Venezuela; Zimbabwe Academy of Sciences; The Caribbean Academy of Sciences; African Academy of Sciences; The Academy of Sciences for the Developing World (TWAS); The Executive Board of the International Council for Science (ICSU).
I mean, I guess they're quite good at science too. Maybe they know more about it than you do.
Every scientific subject is baffling and counter-intuitive when you first look at it, that's why it's science and not just common sense. When you fully understand evolution, you understand what Dozhansky said when he said that nothing in biology makes sense without it.
I have said on this thread (only half-joking) that the best argument for evolution is that no-one can think of an argument against it. If you will produce your top 5 "major flaws", I shall be happy to demonstrate this fact.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by SpecKeta, posted 05-26-2007 5:00 AM SpecKeta has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-28-2007 9:39 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 311 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 57 of 189 (402608)
05-28-2007 9:39 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Dr Adequate
05-26-2007 7:25 AM


I have said on this thread (only half-joking) that the best argument for evolution is that no-one can think of an argument against it. If you will produce your top 5 "major flaws", I shall be happy to demonstrate this fact.
In the still, tranquil silence, I just heard the first cricket of summer.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-26-2007 7:25 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Taz, posted 05-28-2007 10:02 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 311 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 64 of 189 (408815)
07-05-2007 3:41 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by IamJoseph
07-05-2007 1:42 AM


While much condescending and generic Creationalist bashing is evident here, even accusing them of being illiterate, the most fundamental factors have been avoided by Evolutionists in this thread. This indicates a tunnel vision, akin to a Talibanic dogma, which uses manipulative and unsustained premises to evidence their claims.
Firstly, the most vital part of evidencing Evolution is not in the minute research conducted - but the conclusions derived from it. Now this path can go cyclical and use up much posts and energy, and determine nothing conclusive. An Evolutionist is NOT going to ever say, GEE SORRY, I WAS SO WRONG! Forget it - they are today more dogmatic than any religionist they ridicule, but remain in denial of it.
I would get around the minute details which evolutionists love to point to - and thereby derive at runaway unconnected conclusions - by asking those questions which must be evidenced well before reaching the research stage. Here's one fulcrum issue:
So, you have no argument against evolution, and you say that there are certain questions you need clearing up before you even know what it is.
And yet despite this, you feel warranted to unleash a hateful tirade at those who support it.
Perhaps you should find out what it is first, and why people support it.
Q 1: Is Evolution a verified 'constant' - and is this a universal constant, or a localised one which effects only one planet?
This is like asking: "Is the color green an integer? Is it odd or even?" No, evolution is not a "constant", as that term is used in scientific discourse. If you don't know what "constant" means, I suggest that you look it up at the same time you look up "evolution".
How can one discuss a phenomenon without a definitive preamble of its status!?
Quite so. This is why I have suggested repeatedly that you should try to speak the same language as everyone else does. Round here, we favor English.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by IamJoseph, posted 07-05-2007 1:42 AM IamJoseph has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 311 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 77 of 189 (408966)
07-06-2007 7:36 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by IamJoseph
07-06-2007 5:06 AM


Re: Endogenous Retrovirus DNA
Ice, the conclusion does not fit the research here. Let me point out the glitch in your analogy. Replace the exam paper 'error', with say a 'comma' being common in the two papers, but not necessarilly in the same equal locations. Would you still conclude as before? Of coz not!
Now see that a certain virus with a specific signature (reverse mode rna-dna action), attacked numerous life forms (different species)- and let us assume also that the 'retrovirus' strand on all life forms is from an equivalent same source and period: would you still conclude that cross-species is proof positive here? No you cannot when seen in this perspective, anymore than deeming a 'hair' folicle on two different animals as proof. That a virus is embedded in dna, and a hair on the skin, does not change the principle of the logic - the equity of its spacetime does not prove a direct cross-specie subsequence. The issue becomes more encumbent when we are told this virus imprint remains intact - which means it is still around now, and can attack an oak tree or a zebra, and perhaps even some food left open in a kitchen table.
It may sound arrogant to question findings by the scientific community's minds and determinations, but these kind of 'poor' logic in conclusions are rampant, and a constant source of disputations in the science fields. Research and the conclusions derived by science is not always in sync; chess players make poor war generals.
There is a huge mindset today which deems the odds for life outside the earth as very 'positive'. One of the reasons sited is the vastness and variety of the universe. But this is poor maths: the vastness and variety actually negate the odds and render the equation as 'NEGATIVE' for life out there! This is true to the extent we can safely conclude the probability of life outside earth is close to nil: the maths says so.
What is your native language?
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by IamJoseph, posted 07-06-2007 5:06 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by IamJoseph, posted 07-06-2007 9:21 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 311 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 92 of 189 (409052)
07-07-2007 12:09 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by IamJoseph
07-06-2007 9:21 AM


Re: Endogenous Retrovirus DNA
LOL. Your getting desperate:
What an odd thing to say.
what else did you think? I was born crying in english.
Then there is no excuse for the very, very strange way in which you choose to express yourself.

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 311 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 162 of 189 (410360)
07-14-2007 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by jar
07-14-2007 12:26 PM


Re: Can this thread be saved?
The approach needs to be multipronged, and I don't think there is any one most convincing evidence. rather it is the overwhelming weight of ALL of the evidence that is compelling.
This is why I nominated as "most convincing" the complete inability of creationists to find a single flaw in evolution.
Of course, to appreciate this fact, you have to be sufficiently interested in creationist arguments to try to find out if any of them are actually true.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by jar, posted 07-14-2007 12:26 PM jar has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 311 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 170 of 189 (410434)
07-15-2007 4:54 AM
Reply to: Message 169 by IamJoseph
07-15-2007 4:02 AM


Re: Where's the beef?
What if there is a legitimate qualification preposed, that the species classifications of Darwin does not cater to a pivotal factor in humans as a category of its own? Does this infringe the thread subject?
I refer to the fact that humans are distinquished from all other life forms, primarily and exclusively, by speech, a constant which has prevailed over all of time. The categorising of life forms by skeletal and biological imprints, as per Darwin's species, does not acknowledge this pivotal factor - which makes the conclusions based on generic factors, common to all life, as wanting.
What if there is a legitimate qualification preposed, that the species classifications of Darwin does not cater to a pivotal factor in elephants as a category of its own? Does this infringe the thread subject?
I refer to the fact that elephants are distinquished from all other life forms, primarily and exclusively, by prehensile noses, a constant which has prevailed over all of time. The categorising of life forms by skeletal and biological imprints, as per Darwin's species, does not acknowledge this pivotal factor - which makes the conclusions based on generic factors, common to all life, as wanting. Its like nominating a million 'red' marbles by their shades of 'red' - while disregarding that one marble is 'blue' - and never seen anywhere else. It is feasable that this factor can be the most legitimate path to the premise of manifest 'differentials' debated within the evolutionary menu: if one factor stands out, and is the most powerful one - all the biological imprints have to cater to that stand out feature, and explain why it is not generic, as per all other generic differentials?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by IamJoseph, posted 07-15-2007 4:02 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by IamJoseph, posted 07-15-2007 5:37 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 311 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 172 of 189 (410442)
07-15-2007 6:02 AM
Reply to: Message 171 by IamJoseph
07-15-2007 5:37 AM


Anatomy For Complete Beginners
I knew that you were ignorant of biology, but I wouldn't have suspected that even you could confuse teeth and noses.
They're two different things. Spend some time with a mirror and a dictionary, and I'm sure you'll figure it out eventually.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 311 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 183 of 189 (410592)
07-16-2007 2:33 AM
Reply to: Message 182 by IamJoseph
07-15-2007 10:45 PM


Re: Try this:
Start a new thread, and tell me when you expect the next *COMMON* descent of talking Zebras/
I'm mildly curious as to what you think that means, and why you said it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by IamJoseph, posted 07-15-2007 10:45 PM IamJoseph has not replied

  
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