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Author Topic:   If being Christian is so great, why is the music so bad?
AdminAsgara
Administrator (Idle past 556 days)
Posts: 2073
From: The Universe
Joined: 10-11-2003


Message 78 of 99 (127786)
07-26-2004 12:44 PM


Let's keep it focused on topic please.

Christian music, I believe


AdminAsgara
Queen of the Universe


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nator
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 79 of 99 (127788)
07-26-2004 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Gup20
07-26-2004 11:18 AM


quote:
I was not aware that the writers of the constitution were primarily Icelandic, or pagan. In fact, they were Christians.

Actually, many of the the Founding Fathers were Deists.

The idea that our government is Christian in nature is silly. It is based more upon the ideals of the Enlightenment, which are secular, humanist values.

quote:
Well a whole bunch of Christians started the USA,

Nope, not true, as stated above.

Jefferson, Paine, and Adams, were definitely not Christian.

Read more here:

http://www.theology.edu/journal/volume2/ushistor.htm

quote:
which is the most free nation on earth. You should probably rethink that statement. Now the church of england was dictatorieal and restrictive not because they had political power, but because they were corrupt. They were more concerned with keeping their political power than they were with keeping the Word of God.

...and how is that any different from what religious power does in any other theocracy?

You seem to forget that the reason the US is "the most free nation on earth" is precisely because it's government is purely secular, with the foundres specifically leaving the matter of religion to the individual.

quote:
Although it has been trashed, our religous freedom was meant to make sure that people were never told what they could and couldn't believe... and that is definately consistent with the Bible.

Excuse me?

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

That is the first commandment. How is this consistent with religious freedom?

Oh, and how are your religious rights being trashed?

quote:
Therein lies the founding father's reason for religous freedom. With a dictatorial church, people were not free to choose Christ... they were made to choose christ because there was no choice. That is not freedom. Our founders realized that and knew that the Bible didn't teach that.

This is so wrong.

The Founders understood that religion and faith were a private matter and that it was intrusive for a Government to have an official religion.

They were not following the Bible, nor were they hoping that people would "chooses Christ".

They were following a secular model of government.

quote:
Secondly, Biblical creation had been around for thousands of years before Darwin.

And Hindu creation myths, Native American creation myths, and the Epic of Gilgamesh had been around a lot longer than Biblical Creation.

What, did you think that the bible was the oldest religious text or something?

Take a basic world religion class at the local community college or university. you will learn a lot that you don't know.

quote:
So technically, it was Darwin who 'changed' the version of history from creation to evolution.

Yes, and it was other scientists who "changed" the version of history from demons causing "posessions" to brain damage and disease causing mental illness.

Feel free to continue to live in the demon-haunted, ignorant Dark Ages if you like. The rest of us prefer modern medicine and reason over superstition, thank you.

I'll put my lot in with the people with the compass. You can stay with the people reading the chicken entrails to scry the future if that's what makes you most comfortable.

quote:
Why did he do this? Because his daughter died of a disease and he got pissed off at God for it and decided that a loving God couldn't have let his daughter die.

I'm sorry, but this is just stupid.

Um, Darwin began developing the ToE long before he was even married, let alone a father, long before his daugher's death.

The Theory of Evolution is is supported by an overwhelming amount of evidence from diverse scientific fields.

quote:
What Darwin failed to realize is that we live in a fallen sinful world marred by death, ruled by Satan.

Can you please explain to me what "sin" and "satan" have to do with the change in alelle frequencies in a population over time?

What you don't know about Biology is a lot.

quote:
Evolution tells you that the Bible is a lie... that it is a fairy tale.

No, evolution tells us that alelle frequencies change in populations over time.

YOU have decided that the Bible is a science textbook instead of a spiritual guide. Don't blame reason and science for your religious folly.

quote:
However, we have seen many creation sciences take hold and stand the test of time. For example, Isaac Newton was a Creationist. So was Louis Pasteur, Carlous Linneaus, and many more.

1) None of these people used "Godidit" in their work. They used methodological naturalism in their work, just like modern scientists.

2) None of them were alive when the Theory of Evolution was developed, nor had modern Geology discovered the Earth's ancient age.

quote:
These are men who's christianity and passion for the Bible drove them to their discoveries.

Bull. They used methodological naturalism, just like any science.

quote:
While not as popular as evolution science today, creation science can still show how a 6000 year old earth is possible.

Really? Please explain.

quote:
Many modern ideas, for example, have come from YEC views and have been adapted to fit with evolution and an old earth. For example, the Bible says that during the creation of the world, all the water was gathered together in one place (inferring all the land was in one place in one great continent). Long before the idea of continental drift entered the mind of evolutionists, it was part of the YEC creationist position.

First of all continental drift has nothing to do with the Theory of Evolution. It is a Geologic theory, not one of Biology.

Second, YOUNG Earth Creationism rejects continental drift.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Gup20, posted 07-26-2004 11:18 AM Gup20 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Gup20
Inactive Member


Message 80 of 99 (128143)
07-27-2004 5:16 PM


You asked about Christian Death metal...

http://www.acoustic-torment.de/eng/music.htm
http://www.undeceived.net/

There are other bands out there that a mainstream and Christian ... such as CREED. They are christian band with chrsitian lyrics in their songs... yet their songs are very popular and in movies and what not.


Replies to this message:
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a servant of Christ
Inactive Member


Message 81 of 99 (135680)
08-20-2004 1:12 PM


I have been enlightened on this topic lol.
There is no such thing as christian music. Anthropomorphism. It's when you apply a human adjective to an object. The music can't be christian. I've realized you can praise God just as much with the beauty of your talent and not have to have the lyrical content being "I love Jesus" etc...


-chris
  
Flamingo Chavez
Inactive Member


Message 82 of 99 (140236)
09-06-2004 2:21 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Gup20
07-27-2004 5:16 PM


You asked about Christian Death metal...
http://www.acoustic-torment.de/eng/music.htm
http://www.undeceived.net/

Anything on the solid state music label is also going to be super hard, not all death metal, like living sacrifice etc... but some super hard stuff.

There are great bands out there... one of my favorites is Project 86. They hate to be catagorized as a Christian band, they feel that labels such as Christian and non-Christian music is constructing a false dichotomy, but they deal with many Christian themes. One of their recent songs, S.M.C. they got a lot of flack for, because of their criticisms of the church. But they do it to promote social change.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Gup20, posted 07-27-2004 5:16 PM Gup20 has not yet responded

  
lfen
Member (Idle past 2931 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 83 of 99 (140251)
09-06-2004 3:04 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
03-16-2002 6:18 PM


Why is so much of Christian music so bland and pablum-like?

You must be talking about some contemporary genre. IANAC but I love Bach! Gregorian plainsong is very soothing but I just don't feel it's bland. Gospel music is great and the roots of soul and much pop music. And Bob Dylan wrote a couple of great songs that are christian, "Gotta Serve Somebody", "Every Grain of Sand".

If the music is bland and pablum like don't listen to it! But there is some great christian music out there.

lfen


This message is a reply to:
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lfen
Member (Idle past 2931 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 84 of 99 (140256)
09-06-2004 3:19 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by nator
07-26-2004 12:49 PM


Can you please explain to me what "sin" and "satan" have to do with the change in alelle frequencies in a population over time?

Schraf!

You know he can't! Bad girl

What you don't know about Biology is a lot.

You make me laugh...that is such an understatement! What he doesn't know about biology is pretty much ... biology, in it's entirety.

lfen

{OK - OFF-TOPIC. STOP THE SIDE THREAD RIGHT HERE - Adminnemooseus}

This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 09-06-2004 02:24 AM


This message is a reply to:
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General Nazort
Inactive Member


Message 85 of 99 (143085)
09-18-2004 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
03-16-2002 6:18 PM


I am interested in what Christians have to say about this.
Why is so much of Christian music so bland and pablum-like?

I agree that some Christian music is rather bland sounding. But sometimes it is nice to have music like that - it is soothing and peaceful, which is part of Christianity.

But there is plenty of other Christian music that is not bland, music that is more passionate. There are lots of Christian bands - my favorite is Switchfoot. Also there are awesome composers/singerslike Michael W. Smith and Michael Card. Their music is not bland at all!

Many hymns sung in church also have passion in them.

I guess there is simply a range of Christian music, just like there is a range in other types of music. I don't find that the majority of Christian music is bland - only some of it.


Pray for mercy from... PUSS! In boots. (Don't forget the Spanish accent!)
This message is a reply to:
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 173 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 86 of 99 (143156)
09-19-2004 12:28 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by nator
03-24-2002 7:32 AM



why is it so difficult to find good Christian music?

Because your not Christian.


This message is a reply to:
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 173 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 87 of 99 (143158)
09-19-2004 12:45 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
03-16-2002 6:18 PM


Pillar,
Switchfoot,
Warren Barrfield,
Third Day,
Creed, and so on.

It is getting better.
Any questions you have about Christian music schraf, I would be glad to answer. I have learned a lot about it since being saved 9 months ago. I have played piano, and keyboards for 35 years, and I have been playing on "The Worship team" at my church for about 7 months. I am now the assistant leader of the team.

I think the problem you might be having is that the music is inspired by the Holy Spirit. If you do not reconize the Holy Spirit, then it would be hard for you to fully appreciate the music.

A lot of the contemporary music you hear is worship music which is slightly different than just good music written by Christians. It might be hard for you to appreciate worship music if you are not worshiping God. Worship music has to contain certain elements so that everyone can enjoy it, and worship together. Just like its more fun for a group of youngsters to sing row row row your boat around a camp fire than singing Saturday nights alright for fighting, by Elton John.

I used to personally laugh at it no more than a year ago. I didn't think it was anything, until I got saved. Now the feeling I get from it is nothing short of Godly.

Also the radio station itself can have a lot to do with it, some play better music than others. I would recommend going to like a Christian living store, where they have a computer loaded with music, that you can sample, and see what you like. What kind of music are you looking for?

I also experienced my baptism of the Holy Spirit listening to the worship team that I now play on. they are blessed and filled with the Holy Spirit. I take my role there very seriously. It carries a lot of responsibility. I need to be following God throughout my life in everything I do, otherwise I do not beling up there playing for him(God).

I really wish you could come visit my church and hear us play. I don't know if it would do anything for you, but you never know. I know we have gone at each other in other threads, but I do like you, and wish the best for you, and your husband.

*edited to add something*
Chris is right, there is no such thing as Christian music, only Christian lyrics. We are now practicing the song, Reason by hoop-a-stank. The lyrics can fit right in, if you mean it towards God.
Our Chruch will play secular music if the lyrics can fit.

This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 09-18-2004 11:50 PM


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 173 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 88 of 99 (143160)
09-19-2004 12:53 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by nator
07-26-2004 12:49 PM



The idea that our government is Christian in nature is silly. It is based more upon the ideals of the Enlightenment, which are secular, humanist values.

Then please explain this statement schraf:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Note the words creator, and created.

Then explain this:

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by the Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

Please note the words "supreme judge of the world" and "sacred honor"


This message is a reply to:
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 173 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 89 of 99 (143161)
09-19-2004 12:59 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by Gup20
05-12-2004 2:37 PM


Thats an awesome web-site. Our web-site could use some music on it too. If I was closer, I would come visit you guys for sure.

I am a worship leader here:
http://www.clcnj.org/contact.html

Peace


This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Gup20, posted 05-12-2004 2:37 PM Gup20 has not yet responded

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 173 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 90 of 99 (143162)
09-19-2004 1:05 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by contracycle
07-26-2004 4:48 AM



But with all the anger and angst removed, they are just going through the motions.

You mean no-one in the bible got angry :confused
Of course you can be angry, Christians go through the same crap everyone else does, plus more.


As far as I can tell, thats exactly what it's about; the main virtues of christiabity all seemt o do with obedience, keeping your mouth shut and your nose to the grindstone for the bosses.

Poopy. I am human.


Though Shalt Not... If its NOT a bunch of rules, what is it for? The whole thing operates on a premise of blackmial: follow these instructions or suffer.

You can follow the instructions and still suffer.


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Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3893
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 91 of 99 (143163)
09-19-2004 1:07 AM


People, this is a MUSIC topic
Christian Music.

Adminnemooseus


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Asgara
Member (Idle past 556 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 92 of 99 (143165)
09-19-2004 1:13 AM
Reply to: Message 87 by riVeRraT
09-19-2004 12:45 AM


sorry Hun,
<nit pick> Hoobastank... </nit pick>


Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"

http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com


This message is a reply to:
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