Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   World's Happiest People? You Gotta Be Kidding!
Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 77 of 123 (59867)
10-07-2003 5:27 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by Buzsaw
10-06-2003 1:11 AM


Re: sounds like a Chick tract
Lets see, I agree that those verses are there in the Qur'an, although I can see that the OT also have similar verses (thx to Schrafinator who had pointed them out) so I guess we're on the same footing.
While some of my misguided brothers may have taken their spirit of jihad too far (like the Bali bombers who had been sentenced to death or life imprisonment by the court), I can assure that the Qur'an teaches the Muslims to be always ready to fight:
2:216 Warfare has been ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that you hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that you love a thing which is bad for you. GOD knows, but you do not know.
...but not as aggressors,:
2: 190 You may fight in the cause of GOD those who fight you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors.
...and not against innocent people:
5: 32 ...anyone who kills any person who had not committed murder or horrendous crimes, it shall be as if he killed all the people. And anyone who spares a life, it shall be as if he spared the lives of all the people...
More here:
Page not found | www.free-minds.org

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Buzsaw, posted 10-06-2003 1:11 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 112 of 123 (60394)
10-10-2003 4:35 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by Buzsaw
10-10-2003 12:39 AM


Re: What?
quote:
I've never said Muslims, perse, are a dangerous people. My statements and quotes were to show that the prophet himself practiced violence against "infidels" and taught that his followers should also make violent war against same. Nothing in the Bible teaches that we Christians should do violence to anyone.
...and I suppose those 'violence' quotes Schraf posted are not from your Bible?
Prophet Muhammad did lead wars during his life, but the earlier ones were self-defense (repelling attacks from Makkah pagans) and none as agression. The later wars were expansionistic, but these happened because the first Muslims want to liberate themselves from the Roman and Persian hegemony. Violence without reason is forbidden in Islam and the religious penalty for such offenses are severe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Buzsaw, posted 10-10-2003 12:39 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by PaulK, posted 10-10-2003 9:50 AM Andya Primanda has not replied
 Message 115 by Buzsaw, posted 10-10-2003 10:25 PM Andya Primanda has replied

  
Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 116 of 123 (60498)
10-11-2003 4:41 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by Buzsaw
10-10-2003 10:25 PM


Re: What?
quote:
Before Muhammed there were over 200 pagan deities worshipped at Mecca. After Muhammed there was one deity, Muhammed's god, Allah worshipped at Mecca. Does this tell you anything as to why the pagans resisted Muhammed?
The Prophet was chased out of Makkah by the pagans. The pagans also tortured early Muslims. And the first war in his time, the Badr war, was provoked by Makkah pagans who was jealous of the Madinah state. The second war, the Uhud war, was also a pagan attack to Madinah. Then the pagans blockaded Madinah. These events would have make life miserable for the Prophet and his followers, yet when they eventually got the upper hand and marched to conquer Makkah, Prophet Muhammad ordered to spare the pagans. The only victims in the conquest of Makkah was the pagan statues, destroyed like Prophet Ibrahim did earlier.
Here's a link to a 'sirah' (history) of Prophet Muhammad's life.
quote:
According to my Encyclopedia Britannica and other reliable sources, Mohammed had all the men (hundreds) in one Jewish village beheaded who had surrendered and carried off the women and children for the slave trade. Are you aware of this or can you refute it?
This following article may refute it. Some quotes:
IT IS WELL KNOWN THAT at the advent of Islam there were three Jewish tribes who lived in Yathrib (later Medina), as well as other Jewish settlements further to the north, the most important of which were Khaybar and Fadak. It is also generally accepted that at first the Prophet Muhammad hoped that the Jews of Yathrib, as followers of a divine religion, would show understanding of the new monotheistic religion, Islam. However, as soon as these tribes realized that Islam was being firmly established and gaining power, they adopted an actively hostile attitude, and the final result of the struggle was the disappearance of these Jewish communities from Arabia proper.
...
On examination, details of the story can he challenged. It can be demonstrated that the assertion that 600 or 800 or 900 men of Banu Qurayza were put to death in cold blood can not be true; that it is a later invention; and that it has its source in Jewish traditions. Indeed the source of the details in earlier Jewish history can be pointed out with surprising accuracy.
...
So then the real source of this unacceptable story of slaughter was the descendants of the Jews of Medina, from whom Ibn Ishaq took these "odd tales". For doing so Ibn Ishaq was severely criticized by other scholars and historians and was called by Malik an impostor.
The sources of the story are, therefore, extremely doubtful and the details are diametrically opposed to the spirit of Islam and the rules of the Qur'an to make the story credible. Credible authority is lacking, and circumstantial evidence does not support it. This means that the story is more than doubtful.
Original article title:
Ahmad, Barakat. 1976. Did Prophet Muhammad ordered 900 Jews killed? Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain and Ireland pp. 100-107.
[edit to add article title]
[This message has been edited by Andya Primanda, 10-11-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Buzsaw, posted 10-10-2003 10:25 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024