World's Happiest People? You Gotta Be Kidding!

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War has been declared on our nation and war is being waged in response with all the unpleasantness it entails.

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Are you talking about the war against al-Qaeda, the war against Afghanistan as a whole, the war against Iraq, or all of the above?You know, it's kind of easy to forget, but both Iraq and the occupied territories have sizable Arab Christian populations. Who have been living for literally millenia without conflict. Our recent actions, however, have been heavily excaberating the conflict. For millenia, they used to live alongside their Jewish populations as well, in peace; the British occupation of Iraq, the Iraqi expulsion of its Jewish population, and the Israeli expulsion of many of the Palestinians in Israel/Palestine... well, we know what happened because of all of that. We must take extreme care to not cause the same thing again... we're already partway on that way. I know a friend who spent Christmas mass last year in Clock church in Baghdad... and everyone there was already starting to get edgy. I worry about them now, the situation can only be far worse.------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

Those are in Kuala Lumpur and are still standing, as I recall. Maybe you could explain to me how the invasion of a country with no discernable ties to the September 11 thing - which probably killed less people than just starved to death in Africa today, btw - and no weapons of mass destruction that we can find now that we've turned it into the 51st state (all the while letting the dictator we set out to depose slip right through our fingers) is what a "man's gotta do to save our nation."Our nation isn't threatened by a few guys with box cutters. 9-11 had no effect on democracy or freedom. What did have an effect was the radical expansion of government surveillence powers that immediately and recklessly followed. If the aim of terror is to limit our freedom, the hijackers have succeeded - by turning our government against us. I'm sorry, what nation has declared war? I must have missed that. After all war is the actions of the uniformed combatants of legitamate nations.Oh, you were talking about the so-called "War on terror"? Terrorists are criminals, not soldiers. Therefore to call it "the war on terror" is as stupid and meaningless as "the war on drugs". In this case it's worse - it's a smokescreen to acclimate American citizens to the idea of drastically reduced freedoms and government transparancy in the name of "wartime sacrifices." The real threat to democracy is in the White House, Buz. Take your "war on terror" there.

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Gotta love that overriding influence of Islam on the world body, which has led to not a single resolution against Israel being inforced....

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That's because it's really the Jews who have the worlwide influence!...or mabe it's the Masons, or the Mormons, or it could be the Illuminati, or aliens, or, or...

buz, Er, & when did the evilutionists threaten to dominate thought, activity, & free speech? As far as I was aware you are perfectly free to think & speak any way you like? What attempt have evolutionists made to assautl the constitution in this way? My mistake, buz, it's your paranoia talking again, right? Hey, don't let the facts get in the way of a good story. Where as I, along with most Londoners, have been within earshot of the effects of Jesus's coterie of killers. Luvly people.Mark

Perhaps you should ask why YOU need to "malign and namecall" in respnse to factual material ? Isn't that EXACTLY what post 1 in this thread is ?Your posts are are all the proof I need. And I need to object to your evil no matter how badly it uspets you. If you want me to stop then all you need to do is to keep your bigotry to yourself.

So if you don't hate Catholics why do you blame the Catholic chruch for events that happened huundreds of years ago - but hold Protestant churches innocent of events at the same time ? Even when the guilty parties are the very FOUNDERS of those religions.And I certainly have posted refutatios of your assertiosn about Vatican City - which includes the idea that the Vatican is "drunk wth the blood of saints" I certainly consider that inappropriate.

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Therefore to call it "the war on terror" is as stupid and meaningless as "the war on drugs".

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My problem with this rhetoric is that it gives the impression that if we fight the war, we can "win". Truth is, we can't "win" on either of these fronts. If there was a Capital city of Terrorism, with an army defending it, we could "win" the war. Ditto for Drugs.But that ain't how it is. Both are problems to manage, not wars to win. War mentality on these problems is, at best, misleading.[This message has been edited by Zhimbo, 10-07-2003]

Truer words have never been spoken.

You're quite correct. To expand, war can be seen as a process of denying your enemy access to resources - manufacturing, manpower, food, anything. But since terrorism is an act that uses our own resources against us, a military approach harms our own freedoms. It's exactly like using a hatchet to remove a fly from our own foreheads, to paraphrase the Chinese proverb.

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My problem with this rhetoric is that it gives them impression that if we fight the war, we can "win". Truth is, we can't "win" on either of these fronts. If there was a Capital city of Terrorism, with an army defending it, we could "win" the war.

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There is a capitol city on terrorism and Israel is the only nation in the world who reslly realizes this. Why? Because they are located closest to the front lines. The Capitol city of terrorism is Mecca where the prophet Mohammed declared war on the planet commanding his followers to take up the sword and go all the way to global conquest just as he himself did to impose his religion on the people of his land. Israel, and to some extent, the US, is being drawn into the offensive against these forces. The rest of the world watches, jeers, complains and boos as those nations in the conflict defend and retaliate, oblivious to the reality that if and when these fall, they will be next. Where would Israel be today if they sat back passively and suffered hit after hit after hit with no let up by those who loudly proclaimed the intent to drive them into the sea? Where would the rest of the world be if there were no Israel today and the Russian/Arab alliance totally dominated the entire Mideast? Were there were no resistance whatsoever to the conquestadores, what hope at all would there be to the nations of Africa like Nigeria and Sudan to be free?

Islamic terrorism is a recent development and has a lot more to do with western greed than with religion. As the Turkish Empire-- the Sick Man of Europe-- lost power the other western powers exploited the situation and screwed everyone in the middle east. This went on for a couple of hundred years and culminated with the Zionist rape-- continuing rape-- of Palestine. Prior to these events Islamic nations were damned peaceful and very civilized compared to Christian dominated ones. It is history though your blinders will likely never let you see it.------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

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Our nation isn't threatened by a few guys with box cutters. 9-11 had no effect on democracy or freedom. What did have an effect was the radical expansion of government surveillence powers that immediately and recklessly followed. If the aim of terror is to limit our freedom, the hijackers have succeeded - by turning our government against us.

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Crashfrog, you people who can somehow claim that everything existing came to be of and through itself don't seem to have enough good ole common sense to connect the dots in a simple dot book. The few guys with box cutters were a few simple dots in the big picture. They connect with this destruction, that massacre, and fundamentalistic spiritual and political leaders of many nations. They connect with the Imams of mosques in our own nations, the millions Saudi Arabia is pouring into land leases and property in our nation, the murderous bussed in rioters of Nigeria and the rewards paid to Israeli families of suicide bombers. On and on we could go with dots. These dots all connect and the picture becomes Mohammed and his written manifesto of world conquest. The stats show them winning, but why lend them a free ride to quick victory as you people seem bent on doing?

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Prior to these events Islamic nations were damned peaceful and very civilized compared to Christian dominated ones. It is history though your blinders will likely never let you see it.

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John, better read up on the bloody life and times of Mohammed and the wars that ensued after his death to prevent the defection of his followers who wanted to opt out. The only reason for any calm thereafter was that the Orthodox, the Vatican and the Muslims all kept one another pretty much at bay. Underlying all this was the quiet march of the true gospel of Jesus to eventually inspire the freedom, reformation and measure of enlightment enjoyed by the West.

Bombast doesn't impress me, buz. I have, in fact, read several histories of Islam. I've read quite enough to know that you haven't read much of anything and just spew what you want to believe. I am also bright enough to notice that you are biasing the issue in your favor by pointing out only one side of the story. What I did not say was that Islam had no violent episodes, yet this is the statement to which you responded. This is dishonest. I'd be ashamed, but judging by how often christian apologists resort to this kind of garbage, I must conclude that God likes deceit. What I did say is that relative to Christianity's blood baths, Islam has a very clean record. Why did you not mention christian massacres, buz? Failed to read that part of the history books? Why didn't you mention that the Quran specifically commands that the Jews and Christians be left alone? Why didn't you mention that the Islamic rulers had no problem with the Christian's making pilgrimages to their Holy Sites until the Christians started making a mess of things with their bad behavior? Christians were allowed missions and churches in the middle east until the western armies showed up and started killing everyone in their way. Why wasn't this mentioned? Why not also mention that after the crusaders had been repelled by Saladin, the christian churches WERE NOT destroyed as the Christians had done to the mosques in towns they conquored, but remained open to any Christian who wished to come in peace to worship? The keys to these churches were given to Muslim families so that the fueding christian sects could not deny one another the rights to visit.

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Underlying all this was the quiet march of the true gospel of Jesus to eventually inspire the freedom, reformation and measure of enlightment enjoyed by the West.

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Freedom, reformation and enlightenment have come with the decline of Christianity's strangle hold, not as a result of it. That freedom and enlightenment came to us via Islam, not that freedom and enlightenment are Islamic. Its just that Islam didn't spend its energy destroying information. Christianity just threw Europe into the dark ages.------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

We did just that to Iraq for nearly ten years. I doubt Sadam had anything to do with it, but: Can you see 9/11 as retaliation on behalf of the millions of helpless victims of our exploitative behavior toward third world populations? What more appropriate target than headquarters of the World Trade Organization?db[This message has been edited by doctrbill, 10-05-2003]