The Origin of Music

Did you see the PBS special on this too? I missed the first part of it but I was glas I tuned in for the last 30 minutes. Great stuff.Song of the Earth with David Attenborough | Additional Web and Print Resources | Nature | PBSI hope to catch a rerun.thanx
PM1K

Where in the bible does it say that? Have you citations?thanks,
lfen

Do you have documentation of that? or is it just an assertion? Do you know for a fact that tribes had rituals for respective gods before they had mating?Interesting that we both chose MTV as examples, both linking it to sex: you to satanic immoral behavior and me for natural selection of mates.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

I wasn't making any argument, though - just stating my beliefs and asking about those of evolutionists.I see that most of you seem to think music evolved from mating rituals where music was used to attract the opposite sex.Sooooo my question is this: if monkeys and humans both evolved from a common ancestor, how come only humans have music, while monkeys do not? (hooting sounds are not music, bird calls are)

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If you say there are no absolutes, I ask you, are you absolutely sure about that?

Part of that is simply the same physical difference as language. Most of the other Primates do not have the vocal tools for either music or speech.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

What I'd like is for the creationists to explain why flubknox, which has ten times the enthralling and enlightening power of music, hasn't come to be.Additionally I think that the noticable conflation of the musical experience and the religious experience in these descriptions is pretty clear evidence that the religious experience - that sense of trancendental euphoria - is nothing more than a specific state of the brain.

http://net-burst.net/dove/ch1.htmI havent read this one completely yet but its the only one i can remember right now. I have check again but i will find those citations you want.

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Ponlo todo en las manos de Dios y que se joda el mundo. El principio de la sabiduria es el temor a Jehova

communion \k-"my-nyn\ n 1 : a sharing of something with others 2 : intimate fellowship or rapport 3 : a body of Christians having a common faith and discipline Is not sex a form of communion? Does not God want us to love Him first above all other things? If heaven is better than sex, I'm so there! So on Earth, if courtship is in musical settings, it follows that Heaven must be bangin! (if you think like a Christian, that is!) Then how do we explain thrash Metal?? Sure. Run from the Tiger and chase the pretty girl, right? How about one step further....carve the wooden idol and pay homage to it. God has something to say about idols and images...(Bear with my slight route off topic) My point is this: If no form was seen in the fire, the pattern recognition was not a finite concept. Again, I am asking that we focus on the concept that Rrhain brought up....that of pattern recognition. Getting back on topic, lets extend this to music. One mans Rap is another mans Rock and Roll. Our pattern attractions are relative. Same thing with sexual attraction. One mans big breasts are another mans thighs...or whatever physical features attract us to our chosen mates. Now...extend the concept into what God says about idolatry and of how He demands our undivided attention. Perhaps this answers the question in another thread of the knowledge of good and evil. No finite defineable pattern yet infinite communion, love and awareness.....and then! Infinite varieties of patterns, alternatives, other gods, and a rising internal awareness of self deification! They realized that they were naked and their eyes were opened due to pattern recognition. So who selects the music in Heaven? Hint: It ain't Wolfman Jack!

Some can "speak" in fluently, others can not.Some can understand the language in minute detail, others can not.One can recognize and enjoy quality music without a deep understanding of the language.Moose

I must apologize for this quote I made. The part about diferent instruments being attached to satan's body is a conclusion reached by some theologists after studying certain texts in the Bible
and I can't remember which texts exactly. I remember now that i read it from another book and not the bible.Now what the Bible really says is that satan was made from precious stones and that musical instruments were created for his use. My Bible is in spanish and Ezequiel 28:13 says the following"En Eden en el huerto de Dios estuviste; de toda piedra preciosa era tu vestidura; de cornerina, topacio, jaspe, crisolito, berilo y onice, zafiro, carbunclo, esmeralda y oro: los primores de tus tamboriles y flautas fueron creados para ti en el dia de tu creacion"transalated roughly to english by me it says the following"In Eden, the garden of God you were; your clothing was made from every precious stone. The name of the precious stones in spanish including gold, esmerald, zafire among others(de cornerina, topacio, jaspe, crisolito, berilo y onice, zafiro, carbunclo, esmeralda y oro). Then it says that drums and flutes (musical instruments) were created for him on the day of his creation"This is a strong statement. This says that musical instruments were created for him to use. so one way or the other he was envolved with the music in heaven and many believe he was in charge of it. Even though he rebelled he still has the ability to use music for his own purposes.In an earlier post i said that music comes from the spirit and it always delivers a messege. I guess Jimi Hendrix agrees with me when he said "Music is spiritual, we can hypnotise the kids and then preach to them, anything we want them to hear"

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Ponlo todo en las manos de Dios y que se joda el mundo. El principio de la sabiduria es el temor a Jehova

Thats easy. Its noise and a very awful one by the way and so is rap music lets just hope tupac is not in charge of the cd player up there

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Ponlo todo en las manos de Dios y que se joda el mundo. El principio de la sabiduria es el temor a Jehova

So how could something so complex and so fascinating have evolved through chance and natural selection?. We must have had to evolve from a common ancestor and/or apes. So we should be able to find an upbringing in language/speech developement. But we dont. Only with man who has seemed to have popped out of nowwhere. After years of experiments training chimps, it is doubtful whether true grammatical ability has ever been demonstrated in these animals. Much to the frustration of evolutionists.

Apart from all those hominids we've got fossils of you mean? It is likely that these hominids did possess an intermediate level of speech, but unfortunately we can never know since they've all long since died out. I agree. Rubbish. There's nothing about it that even faintly challenges evolution, might I suggest you read some Stephen Pinker. In fact it would be better evidence against evolution if chimps could master language - for if they could, why don't they?

Actually, Evolutionists have no problem with such differences at all. Very slowly. It's likely that language came much later than music. In fact, whistling may have been one of the first features. But in either case, being able to make pleasant noise, even if there is no language content, might well have been a reproductive advantage.I believe it's pretty obvious that music had to come before language. It could well have been something similar to throat singing, strange and haunting the first time you hear it. As others learned to sing, hum, whistle or chant, that provided the two things necessary for the development of language, the mechanics, and two or more people that wish to communicate.The fact is that humans differ from the other animals only in degree. Many other animals make sounds, some the equivalent of singing (cats purr for example), some the equavalent of language (prarie dog warning bark). So Evolutionists don't have much of a problem with any of this.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

General,I love music also. Some Baroque, but I listen a lot to my favorite troubadors, such as John Prine, Emmylou Harris, and the top of my list, Bob Dylan.I don't know where Bob is religiously these days, but to make a point, it hasn't been you, but some religious folks have been saying non believers hate them. I never agreed with Bob on religion but I love his music, and there is even some religious music I like including Geogorian chants, afro american gospel, and of course Bach. So though I disagree with Christians, Jews, Muslims, etc. I don't hate them and even enjoy shared atrtistic tastes and understand some feelings.lfen