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Author Topic:   Evolution or Devolution?
nator
Member (Idle past 2196 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 7 of 80 (188198)
02-24-2005 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Donald Thomas
02-24-2005 1:19 PM


quote:
The book cites as contradictions to evolutionary theory the facts that approximately 95% of the human genome is redundant, and that roughly the same percentage of the human brain is also dormant. If evolutionary theory were correct and development were based on adaptations to the present environment why would we have developed such a huge brain for potential use in the future!
It is a myth that humans do not use 95% of their brains, although it used to be "humans only use 10% of our brains" when I used to see it repeated.
Humans use 100% of our brains, just not all at once.
Also, a great deal of the actual mass of the brain is mylein, the fatty sheath that allows nerve synapses to travel faster.
Set yourself straight here:
The Ten-Percent Myth | Skeptical Inquirer
An excerpt:
Brain imaging research techniques such as PET scans (positron emission tomography) and fMRI (functional magnetic resonance imaging) clearly show that the vast majority of the brain does not lie fallow. Indeed, although certain minor functions may use only a small part of the brain at one time, any sufficiently complex set of activities or thought patterns will indeed use many parts of the brain. Just as people don't use all of their muscle groups at one time, they also don't use all of their brain at once. For any given activity, such as eating, watching television, making love, or reading Skeptical Inquirer, you may use a few specific parts of your brain. Over the course of a whole day, however, just about all of the brain is used at one time or another.
The myth presupposes an extreme localization of functions in the brain. If the "used" or "necessary" parts of the brain were scattered all around the organ, that would imply that much of the brain is in fact necessary. But the myth implies that the "used" part of the brain is a discrete area, and the "unused" part is like an appendix or tonsil, taking up space but essentially unnecessary. But if all those parts of the brain are unused, removal or damage to the "unused" part of the brain should be minor or unnoticed. Yet people who have suffered head trauma, a stroke, or other brain injury are frequently severely impaired. Have you ever heard a doctor say, ". . . But luckily when that bullet entered his skull, it only damaged the 90 percent of his brain he didn't use"? Of course not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Donald Thomas, posted 02-24-2005 1:19 PM Donald Thomas has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2196 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 31 of 80 (188878)
02-27-2005 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Dr. Silverman
02-26-2005 5:56 PM


Re: Houses and claims
quote:
Also there had been some published work by Professor John Lorber, professor of paediatrics at Sheffield, England which looked at hydrocephalics who had merely a sliver of their cerebral cortex intact and yet had no demonstrable functional deficit. Some had even been high achievers academically. One of the students at Sheffield who had an IQ of 126 and was awarded a first class honours degree in mathematics for example was a hydrocephalic who had virtually no detectable cerebral cortex on a CT brain scan.
Can you please provide citations to the published papers, and also citations to the other scientists who did the follow up work?
So far in my search of the medical literature, the general trend seems to be even the hydrocephalics who are diagnosed as infants and have shunts implanted still experience cognitive deficits and adverse affects.
This message has been edited by schrafinator, 02-27-2005 09:51 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Dr. Silverman, posted 02-26-2005 5:56 PM Dr. Silverman has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2196 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 38 of 80 (188933)
02-27-2005 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Donald Thomas
02-27-2005 12:47 PM


quote:
Perhaps I have unwittingly given the wrong impression about what Kerner says about the redundancy of 95 percent of the human brain. He mentions this point in relation to the work of Professor John Lorber who identified several hundred people some of whom he describes as having 'almost no detectable brain' yet are still able to score up to 120 on IQ tests and in one case graduate with a degree in mathematics.
Do you know how wierd and socially retarded a person can be and still have a high IQ, and even get a Mathematics degree?
Even with a fully-functioning brain?
Just because people can do OK on IQ tests doesn't mean that they are normal.
They could have severe deficits in making choices that do not require logic, or in reading non-verbal body language, or in success in social interactions, to name just a few.
quote:
Kerner simply makes the point that if it is possible for some people to manage with all human functions, including abstract thought,
But do they really have ALL human functions, or just the ones which allow abstract thought? How do they do in social interactions, or how do they fare when aked to make a choice among 10 different breakfast cereals?
quote:
with a sliver of brain tissue then why do we have such a large brain capacity? He asks if this might indeed suggest that our large brains are a leftover from the past.
Well, technically, all of our morphological factors are "leftovers from the past".
quote:
The misunderstandings based on this one point presented out of context are I think based on the fact that it is not really possible to understand Kerner's theses from a few extracts or summaries. The book builds up a cohesive, inter-related set of ideas which cannot really be viewed in isolation from eachother. It is for obvious reasons impossible to present all these ideas in this forum. He provides copious evidence for his positions especially his surmise about alien interception of the human genome. I have chosen not to present that evidence here because it is firstly too voluminous and secondly not strictly necessary for the discussion of the topic that I have introduced.
You said that Lorber published his work. What is the citation to the professional literature, and who did the follow up studies?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Donald Thomas, posted 02-27-2005 12:47 PM Donald Thomas has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Dr. Silverman, posted 02-27-2005 3:15 PM nator has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2196 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 56 of 80 (189139)
02-28-2005 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Dr. Silverman
02-27-2005 3:15 PM


Re: Lorber's hydrocephalus research
It wasn't very helpful, I'm afraid, for the following reasons:
1) It talks about some differences in cognitive development between twins when one has hydrocephaly and the other does not, but it does not say what they are.
2) The hydroencephaly in these subjects was identified very early on, as infants, so they were treated. This is not related to the particular claims you were making about adult encephalics who were untreated.
It's interesting that even though your cited study shows that there are differences in cognitive function in hydroencephalics when treated from infancy, the initial claim is that the specific untreated adult hydroencephalics given as examples are implied to be "normal" and have all the same human brain function as non-hydroencephalics.
What I'd really like to see is the papers relating to the specific untreated adults which were given as examples initially, as well as the follow up studies done by other people.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Dr. Silverman, posted 02-27-2005 3:15 PM Dr. Silverman has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2196 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 60 of 80 (189168)
02-28-2005 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Dr. Silverman
02-27-2005 3:15 PM


Re: Lorber's hydrocephalus research
Regarding the Lewin article in Science:
First, this is just some science journalism, not a technical report, and it's completely devoid of details about how "function" was assessed, other than informal anecdote and a reference to IQ scores.
It states two important things: 1)high functioning cases are cases in which onset is slow, and 2) animal research suggests that the thin layer of cerebral cortex, generally considered responsible for higher function, is spared damage - hydrocephaly mainly affects white matter. In certain gradual cases, people apparently can adapt to this white matter damage in a way that lets them function well (although it's not clear at all that they are "normal".)
So, if you're maintaining that Lorber's research shows that most of the brain is dormant or "excess", that's not at all clear from this informal report. In fact you have stated that we can function normally with "only 10% of our cortex intact", which is not supported at all, and in fact is contradicted by the animal research presented in this report.
This message has been edited by schrafinator, 02-28-2005 10:17 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Dr. Silverman, posted 02-27-2005 3:15 PM Dr. Silverman has not replied

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